Masoretic and Carbon 14 NOT Counting Göbekli Tepe in Advance First Time

Quoting a paper by Brian Thomas:

Two date range options for Noah’s Flood
JOURNAL OF CREATION 31(1) 2017 ||PAPERS
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j31_1/J31_1_120-127.pdf

With the Flood-to-Abram Genesis 11 chrono-genealogy having no name gaps and more importantly no time gaps, the timespan between the Flood and Abram’s birth should equal very nearly 352 years. This follows by adding 292 years from Genesis 11 to 60 presumed years between Terah’s firstborn and Abram, as discussed above.

So, Flood to Genesis 14?

292 352
075 075
367 427

Carbon level at Flood?

Minimum, with Neanderthal extinction, Denisovan extinction and Flores extinction as carbon clue for Flood - "40 000 BP = 38 000 BC = 35 482 extra years"*, 1.367 pmC.

Maximum, with most recent dinosaur carbon dated by Mark Armitage to "22 000 BP = 20 000 BC = 17 428 extra years"*, 12.066 pmC.

Carbon level at Genesis 14? 2166 BC (as per paper) minus 75 = 2091 BC, carbon dated to 3400 - 2900 BC.

Minimum "3400 BC - 2091 BC = 1309 extra years"*, 85.355 pmC.

Maximum "2900 BC - 2091 BC = 809 extra years"*, 90.677 pmC.

% left after 367 or shorter count of years, 95.658 (things from 367 years ago have 95.658 pmC), % left after 427 or longer count of years, 94.966 (similar)

pmC points recovered in shorter count of years as per today's production, 4.342 pmC points, and for longer 5.034 pmC

Minimum to minimum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 1.367 = 1.308 **

85.355 - 1.308 = 84.047

84.047 / 4.342 = 19.357

Minimum to minimum, longer count of years

94.966 * 1.367 = 1.298

85.355 - 1.298 = 84.057

84.057 / 5.034 = 16.698

Minimum to maximum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 1.367 = 1.308

90.677 - 1.308 = 89.369

89.369 / 4.342 = 20.583

Minimum to maximum, longer count of years

94.966 * 1.367 = 1.298

90.677 - 1.298 = 89.379

89.379 / 5.034 = 17.755

Maximum to minimum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 12.066 = 11.542

85.355 - 11.542 = 73.813

73.813 / 4.342 = 17

Maximum to minimum, longer count of years

94.966 * 12.066 = 11.459

85.355 - 11.459 = 73.896

73.896 / 5.034 = 14.679

Maximum to maximum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 12.066 = 11.542

90.677 - 11.542 = 79.135

79.135 / 4.342 = 18.225

Maximum to maximum, longer count of years

94.966 * 12.066 = 11.459

90.677 - 11.459 = 79.218

79.218 / 5.034 = 15.737

Let's say we insert Babel like this: 101 after Flood Peleg is born while Noah is dividing the world, 106 after Flood the rebellion against this starts Babel, 146 Babel ends. (My own presumption is, this division happened when Noah was dying, and 40 years were between 350 and 401, Peleg born some years after Genesis 11:9).

This gives 106 and 146 as limit years for Babel. What would carbon levels have been? What would the carbon dates look like? Presuming unrealistically a linear graph of carbon rise.

106 / 367 = 0.289
40 / 367 = 0.109
221 / 367 = 0.602

106 / 427 = 0.248
40 / 427 = 0.094
281 / 427 = 0.658

Minimum to minimum, shorter count of years

85.355 - 1.308 = 84.047

0.289 * 84.047 = 24.275

0.109 * 84.047 = 9.16

0.602 * 84.047 = 50.612

Minimum to minimum, longer count of years

85.355 - 1.298 = 84.057

0.248 * 84.057 = 20.867

0.094 * 84.057 = 7.874

0.658 * 84.057 = 55.316

Minimum to maximum, shorter count of years

90.677 - 1.308 = 89.369

0.289 * 89.369 = 25.812

0.109 * 89.369 = 9.741

0.602 * 89.369 = 53.816

Minimum to maximum, longer count of years

90.677 - 1.298 = 89.379

0.248 * 89.379 = 22.188

0.0937 * 89.379 = 8.373

0.658 * 89.379 = 58.818

Maximum to minimum, shorter count of years

85.355 - 11.542 = 73.813

0.289 * 73.813 = 21.319

0.109 * 73.813 = 8.045

0.602 * 73.813 = 44.449

Maximum to minimum, longer count of years

85.355 - 11.459 = 73.896

0.248 * 73.896 = 18.344

0.094 * 73.896 = 6.922

0.658 * 73.896 = 48.63

Maximum to maximum, shorter count of years

90.677 - 11.542 = 79.135

0.289 * 79.135 = 22.856

0.109 * 79.135 = 8.625

0.602 * 79.135 = 47.653

Maximum to maximum, longer count of years

90.677 - 11.459 = 79.218

0.248 * 79.218 = 19.665

0.0937 * 79.218 = 7.421

0.658 * 79.218 = 52.132

Now we have broken down the percentages, let's do the additions. Before doing so, let's be precise, I was doing this in haste. Adding produced carbon during time x to the residual carbon after time x is of course legitimate. But here I am adding produced carbon for times x/a, x/b and x/c to the value of residual carbon from decay of content prior to time x after the whole of time x. I should of course have taken production for x/a onto decay after x/a, then decay from that sum during x/b onto production during x/b, then production of x/c onto the decay residue after x/c of previous sum.

Below, I will make a more realistic version. Here I do it simplified:

Minimum to minimum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 1.367 = 1.308

1.308 + 24.275 = 25.583

25.583 + 9.16 = 34.743

34.743 + 50.612 = 85.355

Minimum to minimum, longer count of years

94.966 * 1.367 = 1.298

1.298 + 20.867 = 22.165

22.165 + 7.874 = 30.039

30.039 + 55.316 = 85.355

Minimum to maximum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 1.367 = 1.308

1.308 + 25.812 = 27.12

27.12 + 9.741 = 36.861

36.861 + 53.816 = 90.677

Minimum to maximum, longer count of years

94.966 * 1.367 = 1.298

1.298 + 22.188 = 23.486

23.486 + 8.373 = 31.859

31.859 + 58.818 = 90.677

Maximum to minimum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 12.066 = 11.542

11.542 + 21.319 = 32.861

32.861 + 8.045 = 40.906

40.906 + 44.449 = 85.355

Maximum to minimum, longer count of years

94.966 * 12.066 = 11.459

11.459 + 18.344 = 29.803

29.803 + 6.922 = 36.725

36.725 + 48.63 = 85.355

Maximum to maximum, shorter count of years

95.658 * 12.066 = 11.542

11.542 + 22.856 = 34.398

34.398 + 8.625 = 43.024

43.024 + 47.653 = 90.677

Maximum to maximum, longer count of years

94.966 * 12.066 = 11.459

11.459 + 19.665 = 31.124

31.124 + 7.421 = 38.545

38.545 + 52.132 = 90.677

This gives us the successive values, very roughly, of pmC:

	min min	min max	max min	max max
2458	1.367	1.367	12.066	12.066
2352	25.583	27.12	32.861	34.398
2312	34.743	36.861	40.906	43.024
2091	85.355	90.677	85.355	90.677
2518	1.367	1.367	12.066	12.066
2412	22.165	23.486	29.803	31.124
2372	30.039	31.859	36.725	38.545
2091	85.355	90.677	85.355	90.677

Which give us the successive numbers of extra years

 

	min min	min max	max min	max max
2458	35500	35500	17500	17500
2352	11250	10800	9200	8800
2312	8750	8250	7400	6950
2091	1300	810	1300	810
2518	35500	35500	17500	17500
2412	12450	12000	10000	9650
2372	9950	9450	8300	7900
2091	1300	810	1300	810

Which give us the carbon dated years in BC:

	min min	min max	max min	max max
2458	37 958	37 958	19 958	19 958
2352	13 602	13 152	11 552	11 152
2312	11 062	10 562	9712	9262
2091	3391	2901	3391	2901
2518	38 018	38 018	20 018	20 018
2412	14 862	14 412	12 412	12 062
2372	12 322	11 822	10 672	10 272
2091	3391	2901	3391	2901

So, the expected carbon dates for Babel would be, oldest 14862 to 12322 BC, youngest 11152 to 9262 BC. Remember, we want Mesopotamia.

South Iraq around Shatt el Arab is out. Mid Iraq = Babylonia, NW Iraq + N Syria + E Turkey = Assyria. Babylonia + Assyria = Mesopotamia.

A city and a tower. You could argue, the tower was a rocket, left no architectonic traces, leaves a city. I think you need to get a bit younger carbon dates and either take Göbekli Tepe as adequate or Göbekli Tepe as the city and nearby Harran (Turkish-Syrian border) as the tower.

And I think it is somewhat easier to get right pmC values for Babel = Göbekli Tepe in St Jerome's or George Syncellus' chronology than in Masoretic. Also, my latest table has as fastest production 11 times as fast as now, during Göbekli Tepe / Babel, while a Masoretic timeline gives an overall factor of 14.6 to 20.5 times as fast, all along the timeline, no efforts made to make provisions for separate factors before, during and after Babel.

Now, if we do count Babel as Göbekli Tepe, and if we do take it in from start this time, the short and long counts of years would go like this: 106 40 221, 106 40 281, as in previous. BUT now we will not make an overall average for all the time, but for each part separately.

Since the most important part is - from intensity of radiation - Flood to Babel, I will give just one value for carbon date of Genesis 14, namely 3200 BC, one which I think is probable. I have used it several times over in my own calculations.

Short count in BC
Real	Carbon	Extra	pmC
2458	38000	35542	1.358
2352	9600	7248	41.612
2312	8600	6288	46.736
2091	3200	1109	87.446
Long count in BC
Real	Carbon	Extra	pmC
2518	38000	35482	1.367
2412	9600	7188	41.915
2372	8600	6228	47.077
2091	3200	1109	87.446

After 106 years, you have a residue of 98.726 %

98.726 * 1.358 pmC = 1.341 pmC **
98.726 * 1.367 pmC = 1.35 pmC

After 106 the new total in each case exceeds this residue:

41.612 pmC - 1.341 pmC = 40.271 pmC
41.915 pmC - 1.35 pmC = 40.565 pmC

During 106 years, normal production is 1.274 pmC points. The excess over residue is the de facto production back then, which should be divided by this value to get how much faster carbon 14 was forming:

40.271 pmC / 1.274 pmC = 31.61
40.565 pmC / 1.274 pmC = 31.841

Let's average:

(31.841 + 31.61) / 2 = 31.726

31.726 * 0.34 = 10.787

Where do the 0.34 come in from? Well, they are the milliSivert per year you get at medium location from the cosmos. Supposing - which is intuitive but not factual - that the radiation dose from cosmos is exactly in linear proportion to the speed of carbon production, the cosmic radiation would be at 10.8 milliSieverts per year, which these days is a very high overall background radiation.

Suppoose instead radiation dose is proportional to square of carbon production factor, we get instead:

31.726 * 31.726 * 0.34 = 342.214

342 milliSievert per year is obviously impossible for 106 years without killing off all of mankind in radiation related diseases.

So, is radiation dose proportional to carbon production factor or to its square?

Neither. The fact is, no one knows, no one has made a proper model for what it takes to get a 32 times faster production of carbon 14.

One man has made models of the type, but he has refused to cooperate in extending them for the values I find interesting for this purpose. He's only into palaeoclimate. His name is Ilya Usoskin, and he is or was back then at the University of Oulu which we Swedes know as Uleåborg. I traced him through Peter Vajda and then got stuck with his refusal:

Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : Other Check on Carbon Buildup
https://correspondentia-ioannis-georgii.blogspot.com/2017/11/other-check-on-carbon-buildup.html

Next question, how much faster during Babel?

After 40 years we have a residue of 99.517 %.

99.517 % * 41.612 pmC = 41.411 pmC
99.517 % * 41.915 pmC = 41.713 pmC

The real production is what gives us the new value after 40 years, what is added above the residue.

46.736 pmC - 41.411 pmC = 5.325 pmC
47.077 pmC - 41.713 pmC = 5.364 pmC

During 40 years, the normal carbon production is 0.483 pmC. Divide by this to get the factor

5.325 pmC / 0.483 pmC = 11.025
5.364 pmC / 0.483 pmC = 11.107

(11.025 + 11.107)/ 2 = 11.066

For the carbon buildup during Babel event, the factor is comparable to my own proposal. Here are the very sketchy theoretic radiation doses based on not knowing how exactly they relate to the carbon buildup:

11.066 * 0.34 milliSievert = 3.762 milliSievert
11.066 * 11.066 * 0.34 milliSievert = 41.633 milliSievert

With linear proportion, 3.8 milliSieverts per year, a very normal total background dose.

With square proportion, 42 milliSieverts per year, and Japanese authorities think 20 is hazardous as a total background radiation. Since my own values for Babel event are also close to 11, you can realise why I would like an answer from Professor Usoskin ....

Now, Babel to Genesis 14.

After 221 years, you have a residue of 97.362 % and therefore during them, the normal production is 2.638 pmC points.

46.736 pmC * 97.362 % = 45.503 pmC
87.446 pmC - 45.503 pmC = 41.943 pmC
41.943 pmC / 2.638 pmC = 15.9

And after 281 years, the residue is 96.658 % and the normal production is 3.342 pmC points.

47.077 pmC * 96.658 % = 45.504 pmC
87.446 pmC - 45.504 pmC = 41.942 pmC
41.942 pmC / 3.342 pmC = 12.55

In this scenario, the time from Babel to Abraham at age 75 / 80 has a factor higher than during Babel, 13 to 16 times normal production speed.

In mine, LXX based (but with post-Flood coinciding with Samaritan), that is, it is not my chronology, but probably based on St Jerome's calculation, Babel to Abraham is just about 6 times normal.

While Brian Thomas has given fairly strong reasons to prefer LXX based over Masoretic, I think the carbon production and what it implies about radiation doses also adds an argument.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Matthew***
21.IX.2018

Footnotes :

* Counting with a Masoretic Flood date of 2518 BC (Genesis 14 calculations in parentheses):

38,000 20,000 (3400 2900)
02,518 02,518 (2091 2091)
35,482 17,428 (1309 0809)

** Systematically rounding off to nearest 3 decimals after calculations, up to just before carbon calculator:

Carbon 14 Dating Calculator
https://www.math.upenn.edu/~deturck/m170/c14/carbdate.html

For instance, a multiplication like:

0.108991825613079 * 84.04735514 = 9.16047467465939894187606

is shown like

0.109 * 84.047 = 9.16

and this is not a mistake for "0.109 * 84.047 = 9.161123" or even for "0.109 * 84.047 = 9.161". 9.16 rounds a fraction where decimal after 6 is a zero and decimals after that are under 5.

*** In Aethiopia natalis sancti Matthaei, Apostoli et Evangelistae; qui, in ea regione praedicans, martyrium passus est. Hujus Evangelium, Hebraeo sermone conscriptum, ipso Matthaeo revelante, inventum est, una cum corpore beati Barnabae Apostoli, tempore Zenonis Imperatoris.