samedi 28 novembre 2020

Destructivity of Noah's Flood, Palaeoenvironmental Deductions, How I Differ from CMI


I regard CMI (url creation.com) as a highly useful resource, to be used critically.

Every single criticism of them voiced here on this or that article by them should be taken as implicitly endorsing 95 % of their articles apart from those.

When I don't write in their direct praise, it's a bit to keep internet free from blog posts and comments adding up to nothing more than "I agree" - but I very often do. Not make blog posts saying I agree, but I often do agree.

Today is one of the days when I don't quite do so.

https://creation.com/was-noahs-flood-too-destructive
https://creation.com/paleoenvironmental-deductions
https://creation.com/paleoenvironments-and-the-bible

Waves destroying the Ark? Well, how do we know they would? Unless this is modelled with respect to the Ark, there really isn’t a way to know. And what modelling has been done suggests the Ark was very stable (Safety investigation of Noah’s Ark in a seaway). Besides, was the Ark simply subject to the vicissitudes of the Flood, or was God looking out for it? Clearly He was looking out for the Ark. The question is how involved He had to be to make sure the Ark was safe. Maybe the Ark was sufficient to survive the Flood without any special providential ordering of things or miracles. Or, God may have simply providentially arranged circumstances so that Ark in a relatively calm region of the waters. Or, of course, He could’ve provided some level of supernatural aid to protect the Ark, from an angel or two dispersing a few waves as needed to a constant ‘bubble’ of protection for the entire Flood. Again, we know too little of what happened to say with any clarity.


I think the level would generally be "providential". Waves would not have destroyed the Ark, as it was floating like a cork, but vulcanos erupting could have boiled all of the crew and living cargo to "Hadaean".

On the other hand, while miracles cannot be ruled out (especially I think there is one in coming out from the Ark, Genesis 8:13), we need not presume direct miracles for providential guiding of the Ark away from vulcanos. Just as the weakness in formation of the Persians on the other bank of Granikos was providential to Alexander conquering the East and helping to prepare the Gospel (his intention and God's were both fulfilled).

In other words, I think we could dare to be a bit more precise than Shaun Doyle dared.

Are some of the processes too quick and devastating? First, different processes were happening in different places; just because conditions during the Flood may be unliveable in some times and places doesn’t mean they were in all times and places. The intensity of the catastrophic conditions would’ve varied in time and space during the Flood year. For instance, oceanic crust wasn’t being created at metres/second rates in the areas around Yellowstone National Park.


The precise reason why I think cavemen already buried could have been preserved. If they were in caves, they were allready off the surface of the earth. Hence, I believe Neanderthals and Denisovans were pre-Flood races, and Erectus, Heidelbergensis, Antecessor aliases for Denisovan. These could even be the Nephelim (Heidelbergensis is more robust than Neanderthals).

Also the precise reason why I think we could with some reasonable security make a pre-Flood map from the greater environmental features (notably the main river valleys of the four rivers), and from biotopes, land or sea. There is another reason for it too. If the Cetotherium maicopicum had been swimming far away from the tectonic coordinates of today's Maikop, we could not have in Maikop by the Belaia a "Holotype (IBP S144, S131, S142, S154, S125, S126, S128, S130):partial skeleton". Even the partial skull of Cetotheriopsis lintianus would probably have arrived in much smaller fragments if it had been living far away from Linz. Now, certainly, these whales could have been transported 500 km, but they weren't, since if they had, they would not have been arriving in bits and pieces still identifiable as whales. If we don't have more whales from the Flood, part of them may have survived, we still have whales, and part have been transported in mudmixed fastflowing water for 500 km and arrived in non-identifiable shapes. If we find the means of making palaeoichthyological observations in Luga which is 146.5 km from St. Petersburg, Luga was sea in the pre-Flood world.

Hence, I believe as soon as we use terms like Permian or Eocene not of diverse layers of pure stone on the same place, but of fossil bearing and land vertebrate fossil bearing layers, we are dealing with the surface of the earth when the Flood struck and with biotopes arranged locally. And I believe Frat was flowing reverse modern Euphrates, through modern Black Sea, reverse modern Danube, over modern Rhine, Thames and Liffey into modern St. Lawrence River.

I'll link to an article - first in a series of five - where rise of mountains post-Flood is modelled over time, taking Himalayas as a very clear example of post-Flood only mountains:

Himalayas ... how fast did they rise?
https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2020/05/himalayas-how-fast-did-they-rise.html


My model predicted a rise so slow that pre-Babel human habitation would have been impossible, and it turns out any definitely post-Flood habitation is also post-Babel (post-carbon dated 8600 BC).

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Rufus of Rome
28.XI.2020

(It is also St. Sosthenes, today. Apud Corinthum natalis sancti Sosthenis, ex beati Pauli Apostoli discipulis; cujus mentionem facit idem Apostolus Corinthiis scribens. Ipse autem Sosthenes, ex principe Synagogae conversus ad Christum, fidei suae primordia, ante Gallionem Proconsulem acriter verberatus, praeclaro initio consecravit. Romae sancti Rufi, quem, cum omni familia sua, Christi Martyrem Diocletianus fecit.)

mardi 24 novembre 2020

Does the New Martyrology Promote Historic Truth?


Sacrosanctum Concilium stated, in 1963:

92. As regards the readings, the following shall be observed:
  • a) Readings from sacred scripture shall be arranged so that the riches of God's word may be easily accessible in more abundant measure.

  • b) Readings excerpted from the works of the fathers, doctors, and ecclesiastical writers shall be better selected.

  • c) The accounts of martyrdom or the lives of the saints are to accord with the facts of history.


The obvious question is : didn't they?

For non-Catholics : Sacrosanctum Concilium is named, like so many other official documents both of the real Catholic Church and of the Conciliar Church, after its first words.

Sacrosanctum Concilium, cum sibi proponat vitam christianam inter fideles in dies augere; eas institutiones quae mutationibus obnoxiae sunt, ad nostrae aetatis necessitates melius accommodare; quidquid ad unionem omnium in Christum credentium conferre potest, fovere; et quidquid ad omnes in sinum Ecclesiae vocandos conducit, roborare; suum esse arbitratur peculiari ratione etiam instaurandam atque fovendam Liturgiam curare.


Translated officially:

This sacred Council has several aims in view: it desires to impart an ever increasing vigor to the Christian life of the faithful; to adapt more suitably to the needs of our own times those institutions which are subject to change; to foster whatever can promote union among all who believe in Christ; to strengthen whatever can help to call the whole of mankind into the household of the Church. The Council therefore sees particularly cogent reasons for undertaking the reform and promotion of the liturgy.


CONSTITUTIO DE SACRA LITURGIA SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_lt.html


CONSTITUTION ON THE SACRED LITURGY SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html


Note, this document is one of the reasons why several thousands of Catholics reject the Vatican II Council and sometimes also the papacy of its promulating Popes and their successors, these being - citing their quasi papal names - John XXIII, Paul VI (responsible for Sacrosanctum Concilium and for a later Liturgic Reform supposed to implement it), John Paul I, John Paul II, Benedict XVI and infeliciter quasi regnante Francis. We may be a drop in the sea compared to the billion that accepts them, but if we are true to the faith once given, that trumps sociology, as much now as when Swedes and English had to oppose Lutheran and Anglican Establishments.

Changes in the martyrology have been motivated by stating that the "accounts of martyrdom or the lives of the saints" now better "accord with the facts of history". Well, according to whom?

According to the Church is a bit circular. If the Church had stuck with the old accounts, it would have pointed back to the times in the Church when the accounts in the ideal case are from : fairly contemporary to events. But if the "Church" changes accounts, the new accounts do not so point back.

According to historians worthy of confidence? Why was the Church not keeping due record of its history for two thousand years, then?

Now, for many saints, we are concerned with mainly Catholics and Orthodox decrying the throwing away of St. Barbara or St. Christopher. Protestants (except a few High Church ones) weren't all that much into them anyway.

For Christmas day, we are concerned with lots more, since we are concerned with Christ Himself and with the Bible. Here is the earliest printed version of it in translation:

Year from Creation of the World, when in the beginning God created Heaven and Earth, five thousand, one hundred and ninety-nine, which number of years was completed in the following year of March, in the 20th day of same month, for in that day the world was created.

But from the Deluge, the two thousand nine hundred fifty seventh year, which number was completed seventeenth day of following April.

From birth of Abraham, the two thousand fifteenth year.

From Moses & the Exodus of the people of Israel from Egypt, the thousand five hundred tenth year.

From the ruin of Troy, the thousand hundred seventy-ninth year.

From the anointing of David unto king, the thousand thirty-second year.

In the hundred ninenty third Olimpiad, and in the eight hundredth year from the first Olimpiad. From the founding of the city of Rome, the seven hundredth fifty second year. The sixty-third week, accorting to the prophecy of Daniel, that is the four hundred fortieth year or thereabout.

Year of the rule of Octavian, the forty-second. Sixth age of the world, gates closed, all world composed in peace, Christ Jesus eternal God, and Son of the eternal Father, wanting by his most tender advent consecrate the world, conceived by the Holy Ghost and nine months gone through after conception (here it is said in high voice) is born in Bethlehem of Judah from the Virgin Mary, made man; (here higher voice and in passion tone:) Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh.


Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Background to Christmas Martyrology
https://filolohika.blogspot.com/2019/02/background-to-christmas-martyrology.html


Troy has been eliminated during the old martyrology, and 63:rd week has become 65:th.

I'll trust the Novus Ordo Catholic (but still a believer) Mark Shea to cite the new version correctly:

Proclamation of the Birth of Christ
DECEMBER 24, 2009 BY MARK SHEA
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2009/12/proclamation-of-the-birth-of-christ.html


What he heard in Mass (or what is supposed to be one) was:

Today, the twenty-fifth day of December, unknown ages from the time when God created the heavens and the earth and then formed man and woman in his own image.

Several thousand years after the flood, when God made the rainbow shine forth as a sign of the covenant.

Twenty-one centuries from the time of Abraham and Sarah; thirteen centuries after Moses led the people of Israel out of Egypt.

Eleven hundred years from the time of Ruth and the Judges; one thousand years from the anointing of David as king; in the sixty-fifth week according to the prophecy of Daniel.

In the one hundred and ninety-fourth Olympiad; the seven hundred and fifty-second year from the foundation of the city of Rome.

The forty-second year of the reign of Octavian Augustus; the whole world being at peace, Jesus Christ, eternal God and Son of the eternal Father, desiring to sanctify the world by his most merciful coming, being conceived by the Holy Spirit, and nine months having passed since his conception, was born in Bethlehem of Judea of the Virgin Mary.

Today is the nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh.


I have no quarrel with the end of this proclamation, but I am not into "unknown ages" or "several thousand years" (after creation or Flood) and for that matter not into "thirteen centuries after Moses led the people of Israel out of Egypt" - I consider this as "Newspeak" and wrote an article on it : Newspeak in Nineteen - Eighty ... er Sorry ... Ninety-Four.

The problem here is, the Church (or what passes for it for those accepting Vatican II) presumes that the earlier version was not according "with the facts of history", that a non-Church and not Church-dependent or Bible dependent entity could correct the understanding the Church had from the Bible. This being, for "unknown ages" and for "several thousand years". Italian translation on Santi e Beati has "e molti secoli da quando, dopo il diluvio, l’Altissimo aveva fatto risplendere tra le nubi l’arcobaleno, segno di alleanza e di pace;" - that is better.

But I think whether we deal with the chronology of the older Roman Martyrology, or that of Syncellus (cited by Orthodox on their ecclesiastical New Year, September 1:st), 2957 or 3266, or even shorter with Masoretic chronology, like 2348 with Ussher, while we could call it "many centuries", we can't call it "several thousand years". It seems US Conference of Bishops was using the one I complained about, from 1994. New Translation (USCCB, 1994) third column in comparison on The Christmas Proclamation, Comparative analysis by Fr. Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D..

And here we get to a defense of the new translation:

  • The main reason it is better might seem paradoxical; namely, it is less "precise" than most older translations in referring to specific years for certain events in early biblical history. For example, while the birth of Jesus is situated "in the year two-thousand nine-hundred and fifty-seven after the flood" (of Noah) in the older translations, it is "several thousand years after the flood," according to the new translation.
  • In this and similar cases, less precision is actually better, since it more closely reflects contemporary church teaching and biblical scholarship. Proclaiming exact numbers of years inevitably gives most people the impression that we know exactly when these biblical events took place, thereby unwittingly reinforcing a type of biblical fundamentalism or pseudo-historical literalism that does not conform to the principles of Catholic biblical interpretation. Considering how long ago these events are said to have taken place and how few historically reliable sources we have for events of the distant past (especially anything before the time of King David), it is better not to give the impression that dates are or can be known with great precision.
  • Another aspect in which the new translation is significantly better than the older versions is in terms of gender-inclusivity. The new translation explicitly mentions the creation of "man and woman," lists Sarah along with Abraham, and includes "Ruth and the Judges"; in contrast, the older versions have no mention of any women whatsoever!


Well, what Felix Just is calling "a type of biblical fundamentalism or pseudo-historical literalism that does not conform to the principles of Catholic biblical interpretation", I call precisely the traditional Catholic Interpretation. I call out Felix Just (as he doesn't represent God, as he isn't Catholic, I am not calling him "father") as pleading the cause of apostasy, and on top of that, pleading it by name-calling.

Do I have any problem with the older martyrology? I have submitted a dubium about whether "1032 years after anointing of King David" could not be a mistake for "1082 years after anointing of King David, 1032 years after the Temple of Solomon", which numbers are actually found in the chronology of Syncellus. It also concurs better with Exodus date in 1510 BC, due to "And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of the reign of Solomon over Israel, in the month Zio (the same is the second month), he began to build a house to the Lord.", III Kings 6:1. But obviously, I have not submitted it to "Pope Francis" - co-"Jesuit" and co-Modernist of Felix Just. I have submitted it to Pope Michael. Or tried to, the post office in Topeka didn't want to deliver it to "Vatican in Exile, 66616 Topeka KA" since I had omitted "829 NE Chester". This is probably not top honesty on post officials, giving some credence to these being not at their old standards of reliability. I have also wondered whether changing 63:rd to 65:th week of Daniel was correct.

But this is not very much compared to what problems I have with Felix Just. He is not giving any single argument for any of the precise values being unhistorical. He is not concerned with III Kings 6:1. With King David anointed 300 years only after Exodus, it is impossible that the Temple was started 480 years after it. But the Bible says, the Temple was so started, with some variety of readings. Only Vossius would agree with Just:

Ver. 1. Eightieth year. This chronology meets with the approbation of most people. See Usher. C. xii. Some, however, find a difficulty in reconciling it with Acts xiii. 20, which seems to attribute 450 years to the government of the judges. C.

Sept. have 440; Josephus 592, though Ruffin neglects the 90 in his version; Petau 520; Severus 582; Clem.Alex. 566; Vossius 380; Cano 590; Serarius 680.

Houbigant would read 350 in the Acts. But Capellus would add 200 here, &c. H.

Second of the sacred year, corresponding with our April. Syr. Chaldee styles it "of the splendour of flowers." M.

The Hurons, and other nations of America, call this "the moon of plants;" the Flemings, "the month for mowing," Grasmaand. Our Saxon ancestors gave descriptive names to the months. See Verstegan. H.

At first, the Hebrews only described the months by their order; "first, second," &c. In Solomon's time we begin to find other names, taken from the Phenicians, (Scalig.) Chaldees, (Grot.) or Egyptians. Hardouin, A. 2993.

After the captivity, at least, the Chaldee names were adopted; (H.) 1. Nisan; 2. Jar; 3. Sivan; 4. Tammus; 5. Ab; 6. Elul; 7. Tisri; 8. Marshevan; 9. Casleu; 10. Thebet; 11. Schebet; 12. Adar; (C.) 13. Veadar, the intercalary month, when requisite, according to the lunar system, which was not perhaps yet adopted. Each of these months generally corresponded with two of ours; Nisan with the end of March and the beginning of April, &c. Sept. here take no notice of Zio, though they do, v. 37. H.

The temple was begun on Monday, May 21, A. 2992. Usher.

It was finished A. 3000, or in the following year, when it was solemnly dedicated. Button.


Note, the reference to Ussher (spelled Usher, here) is in a Roman Catholic Bible comment. So is the direct citation a bit lower.

But dating with Ussher seems very popular with what Felix Just called "a type of biblical fundamentalism or pseudo-historical literalism".

So, is he saying that Father George Leo Haydock's way of reading the Bible "does not conform to the principles of Catholic biblical interpretation"? Father George Leo Haydock was Catholic before he was. But perhaps the Catholic Church could radically change its way of reading the Bible?

No. Not while remaining Catholic. St. John could not change to accomodate to either Cerinthus or Marcion or anyone like that ditching the Old Testament alltogether. St. Pius V could not accomodate to Luther throwing out seven books. A Catholic today should not accomodate to Felix Just or US Conference of Bishops throwing out literal truth of Old Testament either.

Including Sarah might seem a good idea, but it's only possible with excluding exactitude, since "2015 years after Abraham and 2005 years after Sarah were born" is fairly cumbrous. I prefer the exactitude. And I am content with the one Woman who is mentioned in the Martyrology, as She is also mentioned in Genesis 3:15.

Now, Genesis 11 in a standard version of LXX gives 1070 years between Flood and Birth of Abraham. In Samaritan, some manuscript of LXX, by omitting the second Cainan, as does at least one manuscript of St. Luke, you get 942, which is the distance in Roman Martyrology, the original version. Felix Just is, unlike Father George Leo Haydock, not respecting Genesis 11, since, 2100 BC + 1070 = 3270 BC, and not "several thousands years" as Felix Just likes to defend.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. John of the Cross
24.XI.2020

Sancti Joannis a Cruce Presbyteri, Confessoris et Ecclesiae Doctoris, sanctae Teresiae in Carmelitarum reformatione socii, cujus dies natalis decimo nono Kalendas Januarii recensetur.

Obviously, I am citing the Roman Martyrology in Gregory XIII's and Benedict XIV's version, not that of US Conference of Bishops. What did you think?/HGL

lundi 23 novembre 2020

How Long is a Halflife, Then?


Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Answering HolyKoolaid on Babel, part I · Creation vs. Evolution : "the consensus, based on tree ring and coral calibration" - Means What? · What Would Carbon Buildup, from Scratch, Normal Speed, Look Like? · How Long is a Halflife, Then?

Depends a bit on whom you are asking. We are, btw, dealing with that of Carbon 14.

Libby developed the method and considered the halflife as 5,568 years. Soon afterwards, the halflife was corrected to 5,730 years. Corrected because of calibration. Calibrated because of objects with a known age somewhat different from the age the carbon dating would predict.

6 * 5568 = 33,408 years
6 * 5730 = 34,380 years

Either way, six halflives is beyond the Biblical timescale.

Either way, again, six halflives also bring us to only 98.4375 pmC, if at all times the production is exactly the medium rate of production. So, how would even six halflives be sufficient? The production actually fluactuates, and levels as low as 98.202 pmC have occurred in the atmosphere of 950 (note : what we can detect of it by comparing objects from 950 - tree ring dated or historically dated - with its raw carbon date of "800 AD" / "1150 years" before 1950, according to how the the Cambridge half life gives, with pre-Industrial level, 1150 before 1950). And as that is lower than 98.4375 pmC, this value would enter into the present up and down swing.

Now, how does the observation fit into the Biblical timescale?

Could carbon levels still be rising? Hardly, since we are able to find a fairly constant carbon 14 level with a fairly consistent halflife, of 5,730 years. If we had carbon levels still rising, the historically known ages of objects from 1800 or 1400 (not disputed by any party I know of) as ages from when carbon levels would have been lower, would push the calibrations into a radically shorter carbon 14 halflife, and one which with a presumed equal level in 1800 and 1400 would differ between these.

Did carbon 14 levels start off high? No, then we would not have objects dating so old.

So, did carbon 14 production accelerate at a point and then decelerate to present level after getting close to modern level? Well, that is exactly my option.

After the Flood, God made a miracle* or asked angelic movers of the stars to do such, involving higher doses of radiation from the cosmos than before or after. Between Flood and Babel, this resulted in carbon 14 getting produced at around 10 times the present level of production. During Babel's 40-50 years, it was up in 11 times as much. This also resulted in the Ice Age.

But the main object of the miracle was to reduce how long man can live. Before the Flood, it had been over 900 years. During the c. 1000 years between Flood and Abraham, we shrink lifespans from 930 (Noah) and 600 (Shem, who lived more of his life after the Flood than his dad did) down to 175 (Abraham) and 120 (Moses). High doses of radiation are bad for you and for your descendance. This means, lifespans shrank. Before you state sth like God being cruel, we were, since Adam ate the fruit, not meant to live forever anyway. But also, a man who has lived 900 years, if he be good is definitely an asset for good, but if he be evil, he is an asset for evil. Why do you think God sent the Flood in the first place?

Genesis 6:3 And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

Why? Verses 5 and 11 And God seeing that the wickedness of men was great on the earth, and that all the thought of their heart was bent upon evil at all times, ... And the earth was corrupted before God, and was filled with iniquity.

What did Jesus say about those times?

Luke 17 : [26] And as it came to pass in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. [27] They did eat and drink, they married wives, and were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark: and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Matthew 24 : [37] And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark, [39] And they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.

In the days when vampyrism is a known occult deviation, and cannibalism is in the new, as well as gay marriage being common place, we can see somwhat what these words could mean. Cannibalism - inquity. Vampyrism - well, what if they consent? Gay marriage - obviously they consent, right? But Genesis 6 would be calling all three acts iniquity, if I get right what Jesus was foreseeing. Cannibalism before the Flood is easier to detect, because of scratch marks on human bones and because of DNA in dental calculus. Neanderthals have sometimes been cannibals, and "Antecessor" race with a population in Atapuerca have been cannibals in that place where they have been recently studied (their form is close to "Heidelbergians", their DNA to "Denisovans", so I think all three were same race). Hence my hunch Neanderthals and Denisovans were same race.

If correct, we see both why God sent the Flood, and if very old people were misleading youngsters, why God reduced life spans.

But as miracles, while not originating as integral parts of a natural sequence of cause and effect do continue into such sequences*, the higher radiation also had other effects, of which God did not so directly speak in the Bible. Namely Ice Age and ... what we are here concerned with : rising carbon 14 levels.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Pope St. Clement I
23.XI.2020

* See the page on this blog : What is a Miracle? What Does it Take?
https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/p/what-is-miracle-what-does-it-take.html


Appendix:

Check on effect if carbon level were still rising:
New blog on the kid : Examinons une hypothèse qui se trouve contrefactuelle un peu de près
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/2015/10/examinons-une-hypothese-qui-se-trouve.html


Check on connexion between carbon 14 production and cosmic radiation:
Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : Other Check on Carbon Buildup
https://correspondentia-ioannis-georgii.blogspot.com/2017/11/other-check-on-carbon-buildup.html


Check on cosmic radiation and lowered temperatures:
Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : With Jay L. Wile on C14 Build-up
https://correspondentia-ioannis-georgii.blogspot.com/2015/10/with-jay-l-wile-on-c14-build-up.html

samedi 21 novembre 2020

What Would Carbon Buildup, from Scratch, Normal Speed, Look Like?


Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Answering HolyKoolaid on Babel, part I · Creation vs. Evolution : "the consensus, based on tree ring and coral calibration" - Means What? · What Would Carbon Buildup, from Scratch, Normal Speed, Look Like? · How Long is a Halflife, Then?

Here is what would happen. Each half life would have parallel decay and buildup, except the first, where 0 pmC cannot decay.

Normal speed of carbon 14 production is making up for normal speed of decay. As in normal speed of decay 100 pmC decay to 50 pmC, the buildup is theoretically 0 to 50 pmC.

I
Decay 0 0
Build up 0 50
Total 0 50
II
Decay 50 25
Build up 0 50
Total 50 75
III
Decay 75 37.5
Build up 0 50
Total 75 87.5
IV
Decay 87.5 43.75
Build up 0 50
Total 87.5 93.75
V
Decay 93.75 46.875
Build up 0 50
Total  93.75 96.875
VI
Decay 96.875 48.4375
Build up 0 50
Total  96.875 98.4375


So, yes, my tables do imply carbon production was once (I'd say between Flood and Exodus) radically faster than these days. From 1620 to 1720, you have a buildup 2.565 times the modern production and you have so called Little Ice Age.

950 to 1250, you have Medieval Warm Period. In 950, uncalibrated carbon years are 1150 (150 years too old, since BP = before 1950), in 1250, they are 800 (100 years too old). You have a build up there too, but it seems the warm period was not warm all over the world. 98.202 pmC * 96.436 / 100 = 94.702 pmC. 98.798 - 94.702 = 4.096 pmC. Normal compensation during 300 years, 100 - 96.436 = 3.564 pmC. 4.096 / 3.564 = 1.149 times faster than normal. So, there is some correlation between how fast carbon 14 is produced and how cold it is.

It is not unreasonable to suppose the actual Ice Age depended in part on a similar phenomenon./HGL

samedi 14 novembre 2020

"the consensus, based on tree ring and coral calibration" - Means What?


Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Answering HolyKoolaid on Babel, part I · Creation vs. Evolution : "the consensus, based on tree ring and coral calibration" - Means What? · What Would Carbon Buildup, from Scratch, Normal Speed, Look Like? · How Long is a Halflife, Then?

What exactly is involved in the following claim? Here:

Ok, interesting claim. Do you have any evidence for your assumption that the radio carbon dates are too old, or are you just starting from your conclusion of how old the things should be, and trying to force the evidence to support that? Are you aware that the consensus, based on tree ring and coral calibration, is, that the radiocarbon dates measured are a bit too young, not ten times too old.


More specifically, as I have given my evidence for my view elsewhere, this part:

Are you aware that the consensus, based on tree ring and coral calibration, is, that the radiocarbon dates measured are a bit too young, not ten times too old.


More specifically, and contrary to title, I am going to omit the coral part - leaving it to CMI - and stick to the "tree ring calibration" of 14C method.

Back when tree rings and 14C method were being tested, there was a place in Arizona where both were tested and used to double check each other. The range of carbon dates for a certain late pre-Columbian habitation matched perfectly. Both methods were validated.

I agree they were both very well validated for 1300 - 1500 AD. But that is the key. Tree rings from the area were available sufficiently abundantly to bridge the gap between earliest samples and either modern or at least early post-Columbian historically dated samples. This is a very pristine state of tree rings. You cannot find tree rings from any area going back from historically dated times to 1300 or 1500 BC. Not such a restricted area.

Also, both tree rings and texts become scarcer as we go back in time. You cannot observe the minds via the writings for 19th C BC Near East as you can for 19th C AD Europe or America. Why? Because, put all that is preserved in writing from 19th C. BC beside all we have or even a fairly large sample we have (like Congress Library in US) left from the 19th C. AD, it is like a drop to a sea. The thing applies to both texts on any support (papyrus, vellum or baked mud) and to objects made out of or even random samples of non-processed wood. We have too few of them as we get back that early.

"Wait a minute, don't we have trees that have lived since 5000 years and are still alive?"

On a LXX or even non-standard LXX reading like that of Roman martyrology for 25th of December, this tree ring count doesn't reach back to the Flood even. Or for Roman martyrology, just barely. A very young pre-Flood tree was uprooted and replanted in what is now California. It was and still is a redwood pine. But we can't use that to calibrate carbon dates. Each layer of wood from inside to outside certainly is alive at exactly one year, through exactly the carbon dioxide available in that time, with its exact carbon level. But in an object like wood, or even harder ones, the oldest carbon levels will be contaminated from younger ones. Not totally, but I presume at least partially.

To see what carbon level a tree ring series had, you need to get to much more limited samples, like a tree that lived 50 years before it was felled to make a coffin or a chair or whatever else.

And precisely these limited pieces of wood have become too scarce back in 19th C. BC to provide a safe tree ring date by which to calibrate the carbon dates associated with it.

I will give you the context for the quote as well, it is in a debate on this post, with Valkea Kirahvi (it's Finnish for White Giraffe - I suppose that is some kind of drink):

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere : Answering HolyKoolaid on Babel, part I
https://assortedretorts.blogspot.com/2020/11/answering-holykoolaid-on-babel-part-i.html


The main format is, time signatures for the video are bold and what follows refers to what "Holy Koolaid" said at that time in the video. under some of my comments, someone else commented, and that is then "indented" after handle of the one so commenting - or rather like pushed inside whole paragraphs, with only his and my names reaching out to normal margin. My debate with Valkea Kirahvi came after my comment at 3:05.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Josaphat of Polotsk
14.XI.2020

Sancti Josaphat, e sancti Basilii Ordine, Episcopi Polocensis et Martyris, cujus dies natalis recensetur pridie Idus Novembris.

Note that the following speaks of a bishop called Hypatius who was martyred by Novatians.

dimanche 8 novembre 2020

Do Royalties over Here have a Stake in Evolution?


Today, I walked past a building.

Institut de Paléontologie Humaine.

It is on rue René Panhard, and it has a second name:

Fondation Prince Albert I de Monaco.

As we know, the Monegasque principality has - up to very recently - one religion : Catholicism.

Amu avü sempre r'a meme tradiçiùn
Amu avü sempre r'a meme religiùn

But since Albert I, this same religion has acquired another tradition than previously, namely acceptance of Evolution. This was not necessarily the case in 1910, but since then, too probably yes.

And Monaco is a reference for French monarchic claimants and their relatives.

This may of course have gotten my clear Young Earth Creationist position awry to their positions, and therefore their policies on me a bit more protective than respectful, notably to my rights of expression.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
XXIII Sunday after Pentecost
8.XI.2020

samedi 7 novembre 2020

Shinar in the Bible


The key references to Babel:

1 "And the beginning of his kingdom was Babylon, and Arach, and Achad, and Chalanne in the land of Sennaar."
[Genesis 10:10]

2 "And when they removed from the east, they found a plain in the land of Sennaar, and dwelt in it."
[Genesis 11:2]

Other verses which could explain where it was:

3 "And it came to pass at that time, that Amraphel king of Sennaar, and Arioch king of Pontus, and Chodorlahomor king of the Elamites, and Thadal king of nations,"
[Genesis 14:1]

4 "To wit, against Chodorlahomor king of the Elamites, and Thadal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Sennaar, and Arioch king of Pontus: four kings against five."
[Genesis 14:9]

5 "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand the second time to possess the remnant of his people, which shall be left from the Assyrians, and from Egypt, and from Phetros, and from Ethiopia, and from Elam, and from Sennaar, and from Emath, and from the islands of the sea."
[Isaias (Isaiah) 11:11]

6 "And the Lord delivered into his hands Joakim the king of Juda, and part of the vessels of the house of God: and he carried them away into the land of Sennaar, to the house of his god, and the vessels he brought into the treasure house of his god."
[Daniel 1:2]

7 "And he said to me: That a house may be built for it in the land of Sennaar, and that it may be established, and set there upon its own basis."
[Zacharias (Zechariah) 5:11]

In Daniel 1:2 we probably deal with a destination called Babylon. But how wide outside Babylon is Sennaar?

In Isaiah 11:11, we deal with a region excluding Assyria, which Mesopotamia does not.

In Zechariah 5:11 we deal with what is probably an end times vision. We probably don't yet know the location, and the flying scroll being a communication satellite is just one hunch on how it could be recently or come to be fulfilled. Probably, if so, the latter, since I don't know any comunication satellite having the exact measures of a volume flying: the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

Now, Isaiah's Shinar probably is Sumeria or classic Babylonia. Daniel's could be. Zechariah's could come to be.

But the issue, if original Shinar was all of Mesopotamia, the transition would be under reference 3 and 4: Amraphel residing in Sumer and claiming control, ineffectively, over all of Mesopotamia, hence his title./HGL

mercredi 4 novembre 2020

"On the Evolutionary Timescale" is NOT in my vocabulary


Creation vs. Evolution: Babel in Eridu? · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Dispute with Douglas Petrovich · Babel or Exodus Myths? · Babel Skyscraper, Portal or Rocket? · Creation vs. Evolution: "On the Evolutionary Timescale" is NOT in my vocabulary

The evolutionary timescales overlap or contradict with three main contributers:

  • carbon dates
  • non carbon radiometric
  • "geological column"


The last is usually from the exact year of the Flood - or from post-Flood landslides.

Non-carbon radiometric usually has the exact year of the Flood as reason for inflated dates (K-Ar = lava cooling quicker => trapping more carbon).

Carbon dates are most interesting, if we assume 40 000 (without post-Flood landslides you'd perhaps even need as recent as 20 000?) as carbon date of the Flood, you go upwards in carbon levels after the Flood which allows you to make a calibration, so many carbon years ago or uniformitarian BC calendar year - corresponds to such and such a real calendar year in the Biblical chronology.

Now read these sentences:

On the evolutionary timeline, it was allegedly built 11,000–12,000 years ago, by hunter-gatherers who banded together, supposedly “hundreds of years before any evidence of farming or animal domestication emerged on the planet.” In the biblical timeline, it was, of course, built after the Flood.


From Göbekli Tepe shows evidence of geometric planning
by Phil Robinson and Robert Carter
Published: 5 November 2020 (GMT+10)
https://creation.com/gobekli-tepe-geometric-planning


What kind of "on the evolutionary timeline" is it? Carbon dates. 9600 - 8600 BC.

My earliest attempt at a calibration (or earliest I was half and half satisfied with) puts this here:

2957 av. J.-Chr.
3,90625 % + 26 800 ans, 29 757 av. J.-Chr. (20 000 – 50 000)
2778 av. J.-Chr.
40,23593 % + 7550 ans, 10 328 av. J.-Chr.
"9600 BC"
"8600 BC"
2599 av. J.-Chr.
62,75068 % + 3850 ans, 6449 av. J.-Chr.


Between 179 and 358 years after the Flood. On Masoretic, Babel would be 101 after Flood, I had not yet figured out where it would be on Roman Martyrology - but after 101 would be fairly clear.

By now, I regularly use "9600 BC" = beginning of Göbekli Tepe / Babel = c. death of Noah, "8600 BC" = end of GT / Babel = c. birth of Peleg in 401 after Flood (Roman Martyrology = LXX without II Cainan).

Because, Göbekli Tepe is very close either way to where Babel would be in the calibration.

CMI places Babel before Palaeolithic. A 40 000 BP dated Neanderthal is post-Babel. Many others, including Doug Petrovich, at Eridu. Babel is 5400 BC in carbon dates. Göbekli Tepe with carbon dates 9600 to 8600 BC is in between.

Some months ago, put this comment on his video:

Now, your take on the level of Eridu, carbon dated or indirectly carbon dated as 5400 BC, if you take a moderately "early" carbon date for the Flood like 30 000 BP, gives,

with the chronology of Syncellus, based on standard LXX,
11.731 times present production of C14

with the chronology of Roman Martyrology, based on non-standard LXX,
15.744 times present production of C14

with the chronology of Ussher
95.211 times present production of C14

I'll add details next session. Internet time is low now.


Flood dated 30 000 BP = 28 000 BC.

For real date 3258 BC (Syncellus, alt 3266), 2957 BC (Roman Martyrology), 2348 BC (for Masoretic as per Ussher). Extra years of carbon mirage, 24 742, 25 043, 25 652. C14 level at Flood : 5.014, 4.834 or 4.491 pmC.

Eridu rather than Göbekli Tepe means Babel dated as 5400 BC.

For real date 2729, 2556, 2247 BC. Extra years of carbon mirage 2671, 2844, 3153. C14 levels at (end of) Babel, 72.39, 70.891, 68.29 pmC.

To go from 4.491 to 68.29 pmC in 101 years ...

Multiply 0.98786 * 4.491 pmC = 4.436 residue of the level from Flood.

Subtract from 68.29 these 4.436 = 63.854 pmC points is production in 101 years. Normal production is 1.214 pmC points.

63.854 / 1.214 = 52.598 times as much. 95.211 was when counting about beginning of Babel "40 years earlier" = impossible for end 101 years after Flood. But 52.598 as fast a carbon production is not very good either. Here is one more reason to prefer Göbekli Tepe over Eridu.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Charles Borromeo
4.XI.2020