Are Post-Flood Cainites a Sign of a Limited Flood?

In the Catholic Institute of Paris, Apologetics took a turn of minimising Biblical data (like universal Flood) already in the 19th. C.

If in Dictionnaire Apologétique de la Foi Catholique, original one volume edition from 19th C. I think you look up Déluge, you will find at column 770 the argument for non-universality based on Cainites remaining after the Flood.

It was not the only school, the first school mentioned gave Absolute Universality to the Deluge and was still represented by Mgr Thomas Joseph Lamy in Belgium and by one M. Moigno in France, perhaps this François-Napoléon-Marie Moigno who according to the French version was an adept of concordism - it seems the general acceptance of the word is not synonym to périodisme = Day Age, but simply affirming that true science and true exegesis coincide, when relevant for each other.

Then you will find a second school, relative universality of the déluge as to all men or all men of the old world (not necessarily making Amerindians or Aborigines Noachides), and then this third school of a restricted deluge even in the vicinity of the Holy People. Part of their reasoning is that Moses was only interested in the precursors of the Holy People of God, but part of it also pretends to draw in Bible passages as support. Hence the mention in column 770 of Cainites.

Let's take the verses from Douay Rheims, and I will also give a link to Biblehub Hebrew Interlinear.

Genesis 15:19 The Cineans and Cenezites, the Cedmonites, Interlinear Genesis 15 ’eṯ-haq·qê·nî wə·’eṯ-haq·qə·niz·zî, wə·’êṯ haq·qaḏ·mō

Numbers 24:21f He saw also the Cinite: and took up his parable, and said: Thy habitation indeed is strong: but though thou build thy nest in a rock, And thou be chosen of the stock of Cin, how long shalt thou be able to continue? For Assur shall take thee captive. Here Interlinear Numbers 24 gives another meaning:

And he looked on the Kenite and he took up his oracle and said Enduring is your dwelling place and is set in the rock your nest For nevertheless shall be burned Kain until what [time] Assyria carries you away captive.

way·yar ’eṯ-haq·qê·nî, way·yiś·śā mə·šā·lōw way·yō·mar; ’ê·ṯān mō·wō·šā·ḇe·ḵā, wə·śîm bas·se·la‘ qin·ne·ḵā kî ’im- yih·yeh lə·ḇā·‘êr qā·yin; ‘aḏ-māh ’aš·šūr tiš·be·kā.

A minor quibble for this purpose is the discrepancy between translation on "chosen" and "shall be burned" or "shall be able to continue" and "shall be burned". But the major point for the purpose is, Cinites are Kainites, "stock of Cin" translates [kin of] Kain".

And there are three mentions of this people in Judges 4 as well:

Judges 4 11 Now Haber the Cinite had some time before departed from the rest of the Cinites his brethren the sons of Hobab, the kinsman of Moses: and had pitched his tents unto the valley which is called Sellnim, and was near Cedes. ... 17 But Sisara fleeing came to the tent of Jahel the wife of Haber the Cinite, for there was peace between Jabin the king of Asor, and the house of Haber the Cinite. Interlinear Judges 4 11 citing just first words: wə·ḥe·ḇer haq·qê·nî nip̄·rāḏ miq·qa·yin, while 17 repeats ḥe·ḇer haq·qê·nî

So, a Cinite as a person is a Qênî, or several ones too, but the people as a whole is also called Qayin - that is Kain.

The article Déluge is not individually signed, so I suppose it could be the singlehanded work of J.-B. Jaugey, author of the Apologetics dictionary.

Now, shall we therefore grant that Cainite population was untouched by the Flood?

Not the least.

Let's get to Genesis 4, Douay Rheims and a comment in the Haydock comment:

Genesis 4:22 Sella also brought forth Tubalcain, who was a hammerer and artificer in every work of brass and iron. And the sister of Tubalcain was Noema.

Haydock to Genesis 4* Ver. 22. Noema, who is supposed to have invented the art of spinning. C. --- All these worthy people were distinguished for their proficiency in the arts, while they neglected the study of religion and virtue. H. --- The inventors of arts among the Greeks lived mostly after the siege of Troy. C.

Something tells me, a comment is missing ... it is easy to manipulate texts on the internet ... there was also a notice of Noema being the wife of Cham.

Sabine Baring-Gould however recounts that according to Rabbi Gedeliah, Noah's wife was called Noema.

So, whether the sister of Tubal-Cain was wife to Noah or to Cham (whose wife is also given as Nahlath in several sources) and whether there were even two Noema's on the Ark, it would seem some Cainite ancestry did go aboard the Ark.

And this would explain if I am correct supposing Mahabharata is about Cainites (with for instance Jabal as father of Pandavas and Tubal-Cain as father of Kauravas and Jubal as the Kshatriya Krishna**), an idea which may have provoked a manipulation of pages to divorce me from my sources, that some post-Flood men felt close to the pre-Flood civilisation of Nod, of the Cainites. This need not have been limited to Indians.

There is also another solution : someone after the Flood was named Cain after the brother of Abel. It is his descendants that are referred to in Genesis 15, Numbers 24 and Judges 4. Or they thought rightly or wrongly that they were living on the same coordinates as where Nod had been.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Cergy
Vigil of St. Andrew Apostle
29.XI.2019

I had forgot, but Kenites could descend from Second Cainan, simple as that! It's qênân in Interlinear Genesis 5. According to LXX standard text, there is one in Genesis 11 too./HGL

PPS, looking up Rashi's commentary, it seems the Jewish Rabbis are very much into Noemah or Naamah being Noah's wife and not Ham's. This could be a reason for erasing a comment on her being Ham's if much trust is placed in Jewish tradition. Rashi is short for Ra(bbi) Sh(lomo) I(tzakhi), and he lived 22 February 1040 – 13 July 1105, a k a Solomon from Troyes./HGL

* C. = bishop Richard Challoner ** Dictionnaire apologétique actually does also consider the Mahabharata hero is sth other than the fake god! Btw, Krishna and Kush mean the same thing, so the son of Cham would have been named for the possible Jubal nicknamed Kush, which Indians would have recalled as Krishna.