Length of Two Texts

I'll begin simply by citing them:

Genesis 11:1-9

And the earth was of one tongue, and of the same speech. And when they removed from the east, they found a plain in the land of Sennaar, and dwelt in it. And each one said to his neighbour: Come, let us make brick, and bake them with fire. And they had brick instead of stones, and slime instead of mortar. And they said: Come, let us make a city and a tower, the top whereof may reach to heaven: and let us make our name famous before we be scattered abroad into all lands. And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of Adam were building.

And he said: Behold, it is one people, and all have one tongue: and they have begun to do this, neither will they leave off from their designs, till they accomplish them in deed. Come ye, therefore, let us go down, and there confound their tongue, that they may not understand one another's speech. And so the Lord scattered them from that place into all lands, and they ceased to build the city. And therefore the name thereof was called Babel, because there the language of the whole earth was confounded: and from thence the Lord scattered them abroad upon the face of all countries.

Vatican version of Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

446 = account plus Creed, 219 = account which I looked up on word before.

446
219
227

Confirmed when it was last to be cut from word and pasted here.

Let's see same two texts in Latin:

Erat autem terra labii unius, et sermonum eorumdem. Cumque proficiscerentur de oriente, invenerunt campum in terra Senaar, et habitaverunt in eo. Dixitque alter ad proximum suum : Venite, faciamus lateres, et coquamus eos igni. Habueruntque lateres pro saxis, et bitumen pro caemento : et dixerunt : Venite, faciamus nobis civitatem et turrim, cujus culmen pertingat ad caelum : et celebremus nomen nostrum antequam dividamur in universas terras. Descendit autem Dominus ut videret civitatem et turrim, quam aedificabant filii Adam,

et dixit : Ecce, unus est populus, et unum labium omnibus : coeperuntque hoc facere, nec desistent a cogitationibus suis, donec eas opere compleant. Venite igitur, descendamus, et confundamus ibi linguam eorum, ut non audiat unusquisque vocem proximi sui. Atque ita divisit eos Dominus ex illo loco in universas terras, et cessaverunt aedificare civitatem. Et idcirco vocatum est nomen ejus Babel, quia ibi confusum est labium universae terrae : et inde dispersit eos Dominus super faciem cunctarum regionum.

157 words

Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium.
Et in unum Dominum Jesum Christum Filium Dei unigenitum.
Et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula.
Deum de Deo, lumen de lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero.
Genitum, non factum, consubstantialem Patri : per quem omnia facta sunt.
Qui propter nos homines, et propter nostram salutem decendit de caelis.
Et incarnatus est de Spiritu sancto ex Maria Virgine : Et homo factus est.
Crucifixus etiam pro nobis : sub Pontio Pilato passus, et sepultus est.
Et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas.
Et ascendit in caelum : sedet ad dexteram Patris.
Et iterum venturus est cum gloria, judicare vivos et mortuos : cujus regni non erit finis.
Et in Spiritum sanctum, Dominum, et vivificantem : qui ex Patre Filioque procedit.
Qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur, et conglorificatur : qui locutus est per Prophetas.
Et unam, sanctam, catholicam, et apostolicam Ecclesiam.
Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum.
Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum. Et vitam venturi saeculi.
Amen.

170 words

Here is a third text, in Latin:

Cumque coepissent homines multiplicari super terram, et filias procreassent, videntes filii Dei filias hominum quod essent pulchrae, acceperunt sibi uxores ex omnibus, quas elegerant. Dixitque Deus : Non permanebit spiritus meus in homine in aeternum, quia caro est : eruntque dies illius centum viginti annorum. Gigantes autem erant super terram in diebus illis : postquam enim ingressi sunt filii Dei ad filias hominum, illaeque genuerunt, isti sunt potentes a saeculo viri famosi. Videns autem Deus quod multa malitia hominum esset in terra, et cuncta cogitatio cordis intenta esset ad malum omni tempore,

poenituit eum quod hominum fecisset in terra. Et tactus dolore cordis intrinsecus, Delebo, inquit, hominem, quem creavi, a facie terrae, ab homine usque ad animantia, a reptili usque ad volucres caeli : poenitet enim me fecisse eos. Noe vero invenit gratiam coram Domino. Hae sunt generationes Noe : Noe vir justus atque perfectus fuit in generationibus suis; cum Deo ambulavit. Et genuit tres filios, Sem, Cham et Japheth.

Corrupta est autem terra coram Deo, et repleta est iniquitate. Cumque vidisset Deus terram esse corruptam ( omnis quippe caro corruperat viam suam super terram), dixit ad Noe : Finis universae carnis venit coram me : repleta est terra iniquitate a facie eorum, et ego disperdam eos cum terra. Fac tibi arcam de lignis laevigatis; mansiunculas in arca facies, et bitumine linies intrinsecus et extrinsecus. Et sic facies eam : trecentorum cubitorum erit longitudo arcae, quinquaginta cubitorum latitudo, et triginta cubitorum altitudo illius.

Fenestram in arca facies, et in cubito consummabis summitatem ejus : ostium autem arcae pones ex latere; deorsum, coenacula et tristega facies in ea. Ecce ego adducam aquas diluvii super terram, ut interficiam omnem carnem, in qua spiritus vitae est subter caelum : universa quae in terra sunt, consumentur. Ponamque foedus meum tecum : et ingredieris arcam tu et filii tui, uxor tua, et uxores filiorum tuorum tecum. Et ex cunctis animantibus universae carnis bina induces in arcam, ut vivant tecum : masculini sexus et feminini. De volucribus juxta genus suum, et de jumentis in genere suo, et ex omni reptili terrae secundum genus suum : bina de omnibus ingredientur tecum, ut possint vivere.

Tolles igitur tecum ex omnibus escis, quae mandi possunt, et comportabis apud te : et erunt tam tibi, quam illis in cibum. Fecit igitur Noe omnia quae praeceperat illi Deus.

387 words, subdividing perhaps into 170 and 217, with a limit before the second Cumque. Or a bit earlier, with other subdivisisons, like at Corrupta est or starting when God is speaking.

But psalm 118 (Vulgate reckoning) has 1809 words in Latin. Certainly, it involved subdivision, and probably the letters of the Hebrew alphabet served. Medium words per letter is above 82 words - shorter than the other texts. Benedictine monks certainly know psalm 118 by heart.

Quite a time ago, I asked Robert Barron if he knew the Nicene Creed by heart. That's the second text. It would be probable he does. He is supposed to be a bishop, and do the work of a bishop, and whatever the doubts on sacramental validity, he does the rituals he thinks he should do (within Novus Ordo) and these include Nicene Creed.

If he was caught in a house without books (including especially his liturgic books) and with a dying boy, I am very certain he could teach the dying boy the Nicene Creed too. So he learned it by heart.

So, if he can learn Nicene Creed by heart in English, French (where he studied theology), Latin and Spanish (he has Hispanics in his diocese), would someone living between Noah and Abraham not also have been able to make a short, truthful account of the Babel event, including his prophecy of what role God played in it? And would he not have been able to learn it by heart and to teach it so as the children and grandchildren learned it by heart?

We must presume early post-Flood including immediate post-Babel men were biologically superior to us. They lived longer and their brains would have been superior too and if Robert Barron can learn a text which is 229 words in English or 170 words in Latin, then the men who saw what happened, once they formulated a text, would have no problem learning it by heart or making Peleg learn it by heart.

As to learning genealogies in Genesis 4, 5 and 11 by heart, guess what Beduins do for fun? Recite their ancestors. It is a hobby prevalent up to this day, or was in the 19th C. when Karl May lampooned it in the person of a Hadschi Halef Omar Ben Hadschi Abul Abbas Ibn Hadschi Dawud al Gossarah (Halef omitted the pre-Hadji ancestors, probably because they weren't Hadjis yet, and was the first of the three Hadjis to actually arrive in Meccah after taking service under Kara Ben Nemsi - his grandfather having set out, though). So, young Peleg would soon after 401 after Flood have learned things like:

these the generations of Sem: and Sem was a hundred years old when he begot Arphaxad, the second year after the flood. And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Sala, And Sala lived an hundred and thirty years, and begot Heber. And Heber lived an hundred and thirty-four years, and begot Phaleg. (= that's me)

Or, soon after 529 (by which time not only Noah, but Shem too had died):

these the generations of Sem: and Sem was a hundred years old when he begot Arphaxad, the second year after the flood. And Sem lived, after he had begotten Arphaxad, five hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Cainan. And Cainan lived a hundred and thirty years and begot Sala, And Sala lived an hundred and thirty years, and begot Heber. And Heber lived an hundred and thirty-four years, and begot Phaleg. (=that's me)

And as time went by, death notices and new generations would be inserted, Peleg would not have been very old when changing it to:

these the generations of Sem: and Sem was a hundred years old when he begot Arphaxad, the second year after the flood. And Sem lived, after he had begotten Arphaxad, five hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Cainan. And Arphaxad lived after he had begotten Cainan, four hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Cainan lived a hundred and thirty years and begot Sala, And Sala lived an hundred and thirty years, and begot Heber. And Heber lived an hundred and thirty-four years, and begot Phaleg.

If he was born in 401, as the Roman Martyrology has it, I think he would not just have learned the first version I offered from reduced citations of Genesis 11, but have kept it quite some decades too.

And not only more death notices were added, but also new generations, until we have the full text in Genesis 11 which was obviously learned by heart by Abraham.

This is how Genesis 5 and 11 (within parameters of respective text versions, some lacking second Cainan, and one of these also having shorter years) give us certitude of a historic kind on how far back Flood and Creation were.

When oral tradition changes, it is not because tradition bearers who have learned things by heart are forgetful of the words : it is because they voluntarily change the text, sometimes by updates that are necessary (death notices and new generations were added for a very good reason after Peleg was born) and sometimes because they feel doubt or an itching for novelty (that's why Pagan accounts of the Flood are not all that accurate).

The point of Fr. George Leo Haydock still stands, as he put it at the very end of the commentaries on Genesis 3, own and compiled : the minimal overlap of generations was such that a good transmission from the fall to Abraham was definitely possible. That is why we know the woman was promised to be enemy of the serpent, with all that that entails of Catholic Mariology. So, suppose you don't admit Adam and Abraham were about 20 generations apart, how do you account for Genesis 3 account of the fall being actually truly known?

Hans Georg Lundahl
St. Germain en Laye
St. Gertrude
16.XI.2019