Are Neanderthal Y Chromosomes Still There?

The mystery of the disappearing Neanderthal Y chromosome
By Emily Cooke | Published May 17, 2024
https://www.livescience.com/health/genetics/the-mystery-of-the-disappearing-neanderthal-y-chromosome

However, there's one part of our genome that lacks any Neanderthal DNA: the Y chromosome. But why?

...

"We've never observed the Neanderthal Y chromosome DNA in any human sample ever tested," Carlos Bustamante, co-senior study author and a population geneticist at Stanford University, said in a statement at the time.

Interbreeding between archaic and modern humans
a linea: Mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbreeding_between_archaic_and_modern_humans#Mitochondrial_DNA_and_Y_chromosome

No evidence of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA has been found in modern humans.

...

However, the hypothesized incompatibility between Neanderthals and modern humans is contested by findings that suggest that the Y chromosome of Neanderthals was replaced by an extinct lineage of the modern human Y chromosome, which introgressed into Neanderthals between 100,000 and 370,000 years ago.

These two seem to indicate between them, that Neanderthals both have a distinct Y chromosome of their own, and have been found with that of modern humans. Not necessarily agreeing with the order of events suggested here. Uniformitarian timelines are convoluted by the difference of carbon dates, which are at least post-Flood on my view serially rising, and potassium argon dates, which would indicate the Flood.

Now, let's take Dr. Robert Carter's view:

Disappearing Neanderthals
By Dr Robert Carter | Published 14 Oct, 2026
https://creation.com/en/articles/disappearing-neanderthals

• The Neanderthal and modern human genomes are highly similar in general, but about 5% of the Neanderthal genome was identical to that of modern humans.
  
  
• The Neanderthal Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) were essentially identical to modern humans.3
  
  
• Neanderthals were more closely related to another archaic group, the Denisovans, than to modern humans, but the Denisovan Y and mitochondrial chromosomes are very different.

So, modern humans and Neanderthals are different genetically, but not in the Y chromosome or mtDNA. On the other hand, Neanderthals are similar to Denisovans, but not in the Y chromosome or mtDNA. In the meantime, modern humans and Denisovans are different in all these respects.

This one could be taken in two ways.

Either Dr. Carter says that the distinctive Neanderthal Y chromosome is much closer to modern human than the Denisovan, so that by comparison it is identic. Or he is just taking into account those Neanderhals who have the modern human version.

It's interesting that Denisovans are in both respects different from modern humans.

While once upon a time, I considered Neanderthals a candidate for Nephelim, I now consider Denisovans to be so.

As to the disappearance of the Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA and of the distinctive Neanderthal Y chromosome, and as admitted by Carter too, the ones of Denisovans, my solution is, neither Neanderthals nor Denisovans were post-Flood, let alone post-Babel. The contribution we have from their genomes are compatible with coming through lines of which the closest ones would be:

• Daughter in law had a Neanderthal father. He didn't transmit mitochondrial DNA, she didn't transmit Y chromosomes.
• Noah's wife had a Neanderthal mother or father. She didn't transmit Y chromosomes, and as to her mitochondrial DNA it ended with her three sons.
• Noah had a Neanderthal mother. She didn't hand him his Y chromosome, and he didn't transmit her mitochondrial DNA.

But this view of Carter makes Neanderthals kind of a mixed category with modern human (the majority gene pool of the Ark) and Denisovan, not fully, but still.

So, Denisovans were perhaps Nephelim, and Neanderthals perhaps a kind of half breed between normal Adamic and Nephelim. Or the normal stock from which Nephelim were taken.

But either way, the disappearance of their distinctive Y chromosomes and mitochondrial DNA argues that it was lost via a bottleneck like the Ark. This, along with the carbon dates, which I unlike Carter attribute to a basically only rising carbon 14 content, argue pretty persuasively to me, both of these were pre-Flood.

So, how exactly does this work?

Three types of DNA are more or less sex specific.

Everyone inherits an X chromosome from the mother, but from the father you inherit X or Y. Only girls get exactly one X from dad. Only boys (or nearly) get exactly one Y from dad. (The exception has to do with fetal development). Once a girl has two X chromosomes, as a mother she hands on either to either sons or daughters. I have my X chromosome from mother, and then I don't know if it's from grandfather or grandmother.

Mitochondriae are a bit more sex specific. Everone has mitochondriae. Only mothers give them. The one person who got mitochondriae from a male was Eve, she got Adam's. But her creation was miraculous.

And Y chromosomes are most sex specific, and this for males and only males have or hand them on.

How does this affect the scenarii? Using the specifically Neanderthal mitochondriae or Y chromosomes, as per El Sidrón genomes.

Daughter in law had a Neanderthal father.

We know the three daughters in law had modern human mothers. Hence modern human mitochondriae. But this doesn't preclude a Neanderthal father, since he would not be the source of mitochondriae anyway. He could hand on Y chromosomes, but not to a daughter.

Noah's wife had a Neanderthal mother or father.

Or even both.

If her father was a Neanderthal, she didn't get his Y chromosome, since female. If her mother was Neanderthal her sons, but not daughters in law or grandchildren had Neanderthal mitochondriae.

Noah had a Neanderthal mother.

And he didn't have the capacity to hand mitochondriae on. But his father had to have a modern human Y chromosome, since this is the post-Flood standard.

The three scenario are not mutually exclusive, and each admits the Neanderthal admixture of being more indirect. The Denisovan admixture would have lost Y chromosomes and mitochondriae by a similar process and would have involved fewer persons or more indirect sourcing.

So, why not post-Babel or (he half heartedly touches on spread before Babel, which I hold to) post-Flood?

Carbon dates is one reason. CMI would hold that Abraham was born 292 after the Flood and went to Egypt's court at age 75 or 76 or so. 368 after the Flood is too short a time to both develop and get rid of Neanderthals, and it has a carbon date of either early dynastic (3100 BC) or up to some centuries before that, in the sense that his pharao could have been Narmer, or that Hor-Aha surviving to 3100 BC carbon dated doesn't preclude his having lived at c. 3500 BC carbon dated. I'll use the calibration for a partly LXX based chronology, but the principle is the same:

2028 BC

78.316 pmC, dated as 4048 BC

2016 BC

Abraham born

1841 BC

Abraham died

1838 BC

84.77 pmC, dated as 3204 BC*

There is no way that atmospheric carbon 14 levels could have sunk from between 78.316 and 84.77 pmC down to a level admitting the misreading from low original level of "42 000 BP" (40 000 BC), which is Thorin, the most recent Neanderthal as per carbon dates so far. Putting the last Neanderthals even more recently compounds the problem.

Another, 2262 years or even just 1658 years of the pre-Flood world is more time for the divergence of Neanderthals than whatever small time the post-Flood era offers for the purpose. If Carter is right that Neanderthals could have diverged in the post-Flood or even just post-Babel era, I'm still right that the pre-Flood era would have been adequate. If Carter is wrong, I still at least could be right it was adequate. And if I'm wrong that the pre-Flood years would have been adequate, I'm right that Nephelim could account for the difference.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Raphael Archangel
after First Vespers
23—24.X.2026

Festum sancti Raphaelis Archangeli, cujus dignitas ac beneficia in sacro Tobiae libro celebrantur.

* Creation vs. Evolution: Newer Tables, Flood to Joseph in Egypt
https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2024/12/newer-tables-flood-to-joseph-in-egypt.html