Creswell Crag and Bolsover

Want to Live Close to Giant Dragonflies? Nah, Me Neither · Acknowledgement to Jerome Cohen for Previous · Creswell Crag and Bolsover

Here the distance is notably smaller.

It is five minutes by bus or taxi.

And there is some indication that Neandethals could be involved.

Now, what are the carbon dates?

In fact, I don't know in advance that all of these dates are carbon:

Creswell Crags is an enclosed limestone gorge on the border between Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire, England, near the villages of Creswell and Whitwell. The cliffs in the ravine contain several caves that were occupied during the last ice age, between around 43,000 and 10,000 years ago. Its caves contain the northernmost cave art in Europe. The evidence of occupation found in the rich series of sediments that accumulated over many thousands of years is regarded as internationally unique in demonstrating how prehistoric people managed to live at the extreme northernmost limits of their territory during the Late Pleistocene period.[1]

The caves contain occupation layers with evidence of flint tools from the Mousterian, proto-Solutrean, Creswellian and Maglemosian cultures. They were seasonally occupied by nomadic groups of people during the Upper Palaeolithic and Mesolithic periods. Evidence of Neolithic, Bronze Age, Roman and post-medieval activity has also been found there. There is evidence of Neanderthal occupation 50,000–60,000 years ago, a brief Gravettian occupation around 32,000 years ago and use of all the main caves during the Magdalenian around 14,000 years ago.[2] The site is open to the public and has a visitor centre with a small museum of objects associated with the caves, including a stuffed cave hyena.

From:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creswell_Crags

Now, what are the footnotes?

(1) UNESCO : Creswell Crags
https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5671/

And what does it say?

Uniquely, against this environmental back-drop, the gorge and the caves attracted three phases of habitation by small bands of hunter-gatherers, adapted to northern ice age climates, seasonally exploiting their northern hunting territories. The main phases of hominin occupation are:

(i) Neanderthal occupation (60,000 – 40,000 years ago) evidenced through stone tools.
(ii) Modern Human (Gravettian) hunter gatherers (28,000 years ago).
(iii) Late Magdalenian hunters (14-15,000 years ago) who re-colonised the UK after the intense cold of the last glacial period, providing rich archaeological evidence at the edge of human occupation in north west Europe, including the only early rock art in the UK.

Aha? Again, as in Grotte de Fées, the potentially pre-Flood since Neanderthal occupation is evidenced only by tools. UNESCO said, probably with some pertience : "evidenced through stone tools."

If there are carbon dates, they would involve charcoals or tool shafts, not human body parts.

So, again, the Meganeura is pre-Flood, the nearest human habitation clearly need not be so.

Just for completion, if the other stages are in fact carbon dated this would be when? 26 000 BC and 13 000 / 12 000 BC correspond to what real dates?

Gravettian

between:

2935 BC

3.9541 pmC, so dated as 29 635 BC

2912 B. Chr.

6.6161 pmC, so dated as 25 362 BC

Magdalenian

between:

2733 BC

27.679 pmC, so dated as 13 333 BC

...

2688 BC

32.8739 pmC, so dated as 11 888 BC

Creation vs. Evolution : New Tables
https://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2020/08/new-tables.html

The Gravettian visit would be a bit before 2912 BC, and the Magdalenian between 2733 and 2688. All within Noah's remaining lifetime after the Flood. But let's not forget footnote two:

(2) Palaeolithic art and archaeology of Creswell Crags, UK". Durham University. Retrieved 22 August 2013. The dates given in the source are 28,000 14C years ago for the Gravettian and 12,500 to 12,200 14C years ago for the Magdalenian. The 14C years have been adjusted to give calendar ('real') years. "The Radiocarbon age scale vs the 'real' (calibrated) years age scale". Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Retrieved 30 January 2013.

It would nearly seem we have a confirmation, that the Neanderthal tools are not involving any carbon date, and this means, pre-Flood human habitation near Meganeura is a non-problem for Creswell Crags. If the date 43 000 BP were however a carbon date, one could put it down to the reservoir effect since the limestone would give some carbon through the water a pre-Flood pmC.

Another thing is, the Late Magdalenian occupation can be narrowed down even further:

2711 BC

30.2799 pmC, so dated as 12 611 BC

2688 BC

32.8739 pmC, so dated as 11 888 BC

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Liborius of Le Mans
23.VII.2022

Cenomanis, in Gallia, sancti Liborii, Episcopi et Confessoris.