Answering Marc Bloemers

Marc Bloemers often asks me things in Quora. I often answer, and I often put the answers on my blog Assorted Retorts. As the questions are usually related to Genesis, I think I'll take two questions over on this blog for a change. But first a word to Marc.

Mr. Bloemers, I don't know why exactly you ask me so often. I usually don't mind, and I didn't mind today. Now, if the idea is making me change by mind over your suggestions, you are wasting my and your time as far as that is concerned, but I take a revenge to use the time to get my position onto my blog - or blogs, but usually it's Assorted Retorts. If you seek a relief from those who give answers like "Abraham and his grandfather are fictional characters, the Tower of Babel is a fictional story," I'm glad to offer it.

If the Bible represents a specific time in history, where does the idea of millions of years come from? Are there geological transformations which point to a global catastrophe?
https://www.quora.com/If-the-Bible-represents-a-specific-time-in-history-where-does-the-idea-of-millions-of-years-come-from-Are-there-geological-transformations-which-point-to-a-global-catastrophe?

Would Abraham’s grandfather have come directly from the Tower of Babel?
https://www.quora.com/Would-Abraham-s-grandfather-have-come-directly-from-the-Tower-of-Babel?

The second question is actually the easier one to answer quickly, so I will do so. Babel ended when Peleg was born, 401 after the Flood. Nahor was born (the grandfather, not the brother) in 793 after the Flood, so no.

But apart from the quick answer, there is more.

Arguably, you may have come to this from an idea that Nahor and Thera were idolaters (see Joshua's speech) and idolatry started in Babel. I disagree. The Bible doesn't actually tell us when and where idolatry started, but the idea it started in Babel is popular. Nevertheless, I disagree. Babylon, right before the catastrophic judgement against Belshazzar, had Nebuchadnezzar adore the true God. Idolatry was not its only or most horrible sin.

Historia scholastica gives this account:

Interim vero obtinuerunt Aegyptios et Assyrios ita: In diebus Sarug Belus Ne[m]rothides rex Babylonis, quia fuit alter Belus rex Graeciae, intravit Assyriam, sed parum obtinuit in ea. Quo mortuo filius ejus Ninus totam obtinuit Assyriam, et civitatem, in qua caput regni erat, itinere trium dierum ampliavit, et a suo nomine Ninivem dixit. Inde est quod quaedam historiae dicunt regnum Assyriorum coepisse ab antiquo Belo: quod verum est quantum ad initium. Alii dicunt coepisse a Nino, quod verum est etiam, quantum ad regni ampliationem. Ninus vicit Cham, qui adhuc vivebat, et regnabat in Thracia, et dicebatur Zoroastres inventor magicae artis, qui et septem liberales artes, in quatuordecim columnis scripsit, septem aeneis, et septem lateritiis, contra utrumque judicium. Ninus vero libros ejus combussit. Ab eisdem orta sunt idola sic .

Mortuo Belo, Ninus in solatium doloris, imaginem patris sibi fecit, cui tantam exhibebat reverentiam, ut quibuslibet reis qui ad eam confugissent parceret. Proinde homines de regno ejus divinos honores imagini ejus coeperunt impendere; hujus exemplo plurimi claris suis mortuis imagines dedicarunt, et sicut ab idolo Beli caetera traxerunt originem, sic ab ejus nomine generale nomen idolorum traxerunt. Sicut enim dictus est Belus ab Assyriis, sic et aliae nationes secundum idiomata linguae suae dixerunt, aliae Bel, aliae Beel, aliae Baal, aliae Baalim. Imo, et nomina specificaverunt, aliae Beelphegor, aliae Beelzebub dicentes. Sed tandem seriem genealogiae Sem prosequamur.

Here I'll give an idiosyncratic translation:

But meanwhile, they obtained the Egyptians and the Assyrians like this: in the days of Serug, the Nemrodide Bel king of Babylon (because there was another Bel, king of Greece) went into Assyria, but obtained little in it. When he had died his son Nin ...

I must admit, this is usually rendered Ninus or Ninos, and his father is often called Belus or Belos. But it so happens, "Bel" is Akkadian for lord and "Nin" is Sumerian for lord. It can also be Sumerian for "lady" where Akkadian would instead have "Belit". Could Nin have been his daughter instead?

... his son Nin obtained all of Assyria, and the city, in which the head of the kingdom was, he amplified to make it a three day walk all around, and from his own name called it Ninive. Hence it is that some histories say the kingdom of Assyrians began with Bel, which is true of the beginning, others say it began with Nin, which is also true as to the enlargening of the kingdom. Nin won over Cham, who was sill alive, and ruled in Thrace, and was called Zoroaster, inventor of the magic art, who also wrote the seven liberal arts onto fourteen columns, seven of bronze, seven of brickwork, against either of the judgements. But Nin burned his books. From these the idols began like this.

When Bel died, Nin, in solace of grief, made himself an image of the father, which he showed so much reverence, that he spared all criminals who took refuge with it. Thereon the men of his kingdom began to impend divine honours on the image; after his example many dedicated images to their renowned dead, and as of the idol of Bel the other ones took their origin, so from his name they took the general name of idols. As he is named Bel by Assyrians, so also other nations after their languages, some Bel, some Beel, some Baal, some Baalim ...

Baalim is actually plural of Baal.

... Even, with more specific names, some saying Beelphegor, some Beelzebub. But at last we will continue with the genealogy of Shem.

So, idolatry began after Babel. It was also different from superstitions of the magic type. That latter point being perhaps less sure. The Tower of Babel, as far as I am concerned, was secular. Graham Hancock felt that Göbekli Tepe looked like a rocket launch, and imagined it had served for ancient alien astronauts, and I agree on what it looks like, but disagreeing with the idea of ancient alien astronauts consider Nimrod was an ancient aspiring astronaut - and one who was stopped so astronauts could get gone about 4500 years later, in the time of my childhood - because it would have been a non-functional rocket, but a disastrous one.

The first question, on the other hand, I have already answered elsewhere:

Archaeology vs Vertabrate Palaeontology in Geology
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2016/06/archaeology-vs-vertabrate-palaeontology.html

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Walburgis of Heydenheim
25.II.2022

In monasterio Heidenhemii, dioecesis Eystettensis, in Germania, sanctae Walburgae Virginis, quae fuit filia sancti Richardi, Anglorum Regis, et soror sancti Willebaldi, Eystettensis Episcopi.