And CMI Scores a Point

Pop-culture Evolutionism
by Paul Price | Published: 18 March 2021 (GMT+10)
https://creation.com/pop-culture-evolutionism

You can say that again, over here in the country of Rahan, son of the ruthless ages!/HGL

Alice C. Linsley Misses a Point

Biblical Anthropology : Promoting YEC by Undermining the Truth
http://biblicalanthropology.blogspot.com/2021/03/promoting-yec-by-undermining-truth.html

Young Earth Creationists consistently ignore anthropological data because it shows that humans have been around for millions of years. By insisting that the Earth is only 6000-8000 years, Young Earth Creationists deny the weighty evidence that God was laying the ground among archaic human populations for the Messianic Faith that would eventually be fulfilled in Jesus.

The hope for immortal life is evident in the widespread, archaic practice of burial in red ocher, a symbolic blood covering. Red ocher burials dating to 300,000 years ago have been found at site GnJh-03 in the Kapthurin Formation of East Africa, and at Twin Rivers in Zambia.

Red ocher burials dating to 100,000 year ago have been found at the Qafzeh Cave in Lower Galilee.

A man buried at La Chapelle-aux-Saints in southern France was buried in red ocher 45,000 years ago.

First, we don't know if red ochre burials refer to resurrection or sth else.

But second, more important, supposing it did, replacing site GnJh-03, Qafzeh Cave, La Chapelle-aux-Saints and the rest into Biblical chronology doesn't change this. If a preparation for the Gospel thought to be 300 000 years old was really just 5000 years old, this doesn't mean, 300 000 years ago men were without that preparation, it means that 300 000 thousand years ago doesn't exist in the first place.

Alice C. Linsley claims these dates are inferred from multiple dating methods. Let's check.

GnJh-03 - I could not find details of excavation as to what method was used.
Qafzeh Cave - thermoluminiscence
La Chapelle-aux-Saints - also doesn't give any specific chemical or radioactive analysis, but some wording suggests that 45 000 years ago was inferred from things like certain things being "already" there and him "still" a Neanderthal.

Next item on her list, we have radiocarbon dates that disagree:

In the 1960s Kenneth Oakley published a radiocarbon determination of 18,460 ± 340 BP.[5] Results published in 1989 and 1995 suggest that the individual from the cave lived about 26,000 years ago (26,350 ± 550 BP, OxA-1815), during the later periods of the Upper Paleolithic. A 2007 examination by Thomas Higham of Oxford University and Roger Jacobi of the British Museum suggested a dating of 29,000 years ago.[9] A recalibration of the results in 2009 suggest an age of 33,000 years.

Next is carbon only too:

It is dated by calibrated carbon analysis to between 32,050 and 28,550 BC.

Next is another version of Red Lady of Paviland. Obviously, again, carbon dates.

Dolní Věstonice is radiocarbon, and the date given for Mungo woman here is the radiocarbon date, there is a conflicting thermoluminiscence date, as noted by Tas Walker:

The first major find, in 1969, was of crushed and burnt skeletal fragments, interpreted to be of a female called Lake Mungo 1, or more affectionately Mungo Woman.2,3 What made the find significant was the assigned date. Carbon-14 dating (see Dating methods) on bone apatite (the hard bone material) yielded an age of 19,000 years and on collagen (soft tissue) gave 24,700 years. ... But carbon-14 dating on nearby charcoal produced an ‘age’ up to 26,500 years. This meant that the skeleton, buried slightly lower than the charcoal, must have been older. Not surprisingly, the older charcoal age was considered to be the ‘most reliable’ estimate and launched Mungo Woman to national and international fame. ... The situation became even more exciting when a different dating method (thermoluminescence, see Dating methods) was used. In 1998, Bowler reported that sand from the Mungo 3 site gave an age of some 42,000 years.

The dating game
by Tas Walker | This article is from
Creation 26(1):36–39, December 2003
https://creation.com/the-dating-game

Seaching Santa Maria di Agnano cave gives a site that clearly speaks of carbon dates:

The cave of Santa Maria di Agnano (Brindissi, Italy) had been frequented by human groups in many periods spanning from the Gravettian to historic times [1-3]. In 1991, this cave of Santa Maria d’ Agnano revealed the presence of two Gravettian burials [2,4]: ostuni 1 (25589-25482 calBC) and ostuni2 (26339-25779 cal BC).

The Site of Santa Maria di Agnano (Brindissi, Italy)
Amel Chakroun1*, Henry Baills2 and Donato Coppola3
https://juniperpublishers.com/gjaa/GJAA.MS.ID.555632.php

When you say some date with "cal BC" that is carbon, since precisely carbon comes both in the version Libby date, raw date with Libby's halflife, stated in carbon years BP, and with a calibrated date, using Cambridge halflife but also other interacting clues to determine how a Libby date translates to a probable BC date.

Alice C. Linsley repeats the Red Lady of Paviland, without linking, when mentioning a man in Munich, 20 000 years ago. This time she is using the youngest version of the carbon date. Also, this time she uses initial misidintification of the man as a woman.

In El Mirón, where the other (yes, for once not same as in Paviland) Red Lady is buried in ochre, the dating was by charcoals, and as such obviously carbon dated (as I resume the following, for those unaware of German grammar).

Im Verlauf von mehreren Probegrabungen konnten im Boden der Höhle zahlreiche unterschiedlich alte Schichten unterschieden werden, die anhand von Artefakten (zum Beispiel Scherben oder Steinwerkzeugen) von der Bronzezeit über die Kupfersteinzeit und die Mittelsteinzeit reichten; die älteste Schicht wurde anhand von Holzkohlenresten auf ein Alter von 41.280 ± 1120 Jahre BP und somit ins späte Moustérien datiert.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cueva_de_El_Mirón Reference : Lawrence Guy Straus: El Mirón Cave and the 14C-Chronology of Cantabrian Spain. In: Radiocarbon. Band 45, Nr. 1, The University of Arizona 2003, S. 41–58, Volltext

And her last item?

NYT : In the Bones of a Buried Child, Signs of a Massive Human Migration to the Americas
By Carl Zimmer, Jan. 3, 2018
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/science/native-americans-beringia-siberia.html

The article doesn't mention how the child is dated to 11 500 years ago, but with dates as recent as this one, carbon 14 is standard.

In other words, basically all of the different dates given are carbon dates. Far from each item being dated independently by different methods, as she pretends, if I get her insinuation correctly*, nearly all are carbon only, one is thermoluminiscence only, and one has carbon with three different dates and then also a thermoluminiscence date she hasn't heard of, another has its different carbon dates given as different individuals. And, obviously, one is of unknown method.

And, third, she misses the real origin of the Messianic hope, before all burials in red ochre. The facts related in Genesis 3, specifically God's words to the serpent, about making the Blessed Virgin Mary his implacable enemy. For of course, if she takes all laboratory dates at face value, she is unable to take the transmission from Genesis 3 times to Moses as reliable historic tradition, which I as well as Father George Leo Haydock in his comment on the chapter do.**

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
St. Patrick
17.III.2021

PS, the unknown who commented under her post is not the same as the one who commented three times under mine to recommend a writing help./HGL

* Insinuation I read into following citation:

Young Earth Creationism either ignores the bulk of human artifacts that are many thousands, even millions of years old, or it attempts to discredit the dating by saying that carbon dating is inaccurate. Of course, scientists use many dating methods.

** From his Bible comment:

Concerning the transactions of these early times, parents would no doubt be careful to instruct their children, by word of mouth, before any of the Scriptures were written; and Moses might derive much information from the same source, as a very few persons formed the chain of tradition, when they lived so many hundred years. Adam would converse with Mathusalem, who knew Sem, as the latter lived in the days of Abram. Isaac, Joseph, and Amram, the father of Moses, were contemporaries: so that seven persons might keep up the memory of things which had happened 2500 years before. But to entitle these accounts to absolute authority, the inspiration of God intervenes; and thus we are convinced, that no word of sacred writers can be questioned. H.

Holy Koolaid Pretended Flood to Sodom Chronology Excludes a Sodom or Gomorrah of Half a Million People

Theoretic Demography Limits · Holy Koolaid Pretended Flood to Sodom Chronology Excludes a Sodom or Gomorrah of Half a Million People · Barnes and Haydock Have a Thing or Two in Common

Here is a little answer to his inept quote from Star Trek* and its hero Commander Spock. "Multiplying with an average litter of ten, producing a new generation every twelve hours ..."

I am not defending that Bab edh-Dhra is Sodom (or Gomorrah). I have other reasons against that, but Holy Koolaid's point was that eleven generations after the Flood 500 000 people in one place is simply impossible. Now, let's do some calculations.

Flood to end of Babel (aka birth of Peleg), 401 or 529 years. (101 years is wrong Bible text).

End of Babel to destruction of Sodom, one years before Isaac was born (nine months, actually), 2556 - 1916 BC = 640 years. (Same timespan with other LXX version, since the difference is in presence vs absence of II Cainan before Peleg). Let's add up:

401 + 640 = 1041 years
529 + 640 = 1169 years

The point with quoting Spock was, the population growth factor would be humanly impossible. In Africa, we have a demographic growth of 3 % a year, which is 1.03 raised to the number of years. Obviously, the population growth we do have observed anywhere is humanly possible. Let's suppose only this humanly possible population growth were the actual one ... would we get our half million?

1.03¹⁰⁴¹ = 23 096 752 368 116.477
1.03¹¹⁶⁹ = 1 015 583 602 870 594.1

It certainly seems we would. In fact, the sum would be more than we ever had on earth, more than earth can sustain, our present population on the globe would be 0.000 303 072 91 of it. Or 0.03 %.

However, Holy Koolaid is not doing present population growth in Africa. He is doing archaeologists' estimation of how fast the population grew at this time ... too bad if that is heavily influenced by their estimate of the time span, so it is 1000 slower than the population growth in Niger ... But he is for arguments' sake granting the population growth in Niger, while giving it a heavily dehumanising slant ... and arrives at 500 000 on the entire globe by destruction of Sodom.

With a slower growth (obviously a possible one) and even that's impossibly high result, I get Bab edh-Dhra totals at a very low portion of the overall population:

500 000 / 23 096 752 368 116.477 = 2.164 806 51 × 10⁻⁸
500 000 / 1 015 583 602 870 594.1 = 4.923 277 6 × 10⁻¹⁰

Obviously, earth had lots fewer people and the portion at Bab edh-Dhra would be a larger portion of it.

As he mentioned the tower of Babel, what could the population of earth have been when its building started, at shorter LXX chronology? I'd have Babel start 40 years earlier, so 401 - 40 = 361, eleven years after Noah died.

1.03³⁶¹ = 43 076 (skipping decimals).

If Babel was Göbekli Tepe, if the tower was a rocket, which would have very few actual direct builders, I think this would be, in forty years, enough for not only what we see as per already excavated, but even ... 813.173 meters diameter with half a sq km, if we look at what ground scans reveal below the ground.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Sts Perpetua and Felicitas
6.III.2021

Here is the video : https://youtu.be/dJv0OvFnVXU. He is also avoiding the already given information that I have other calibrations for the chronology .../HGL

PS, I was seriously tired and forgot to that 43 076 and the other ones are actually factors, to be multiplied with the original 8 after the Flood. So, 43 076*8 = 344 608, really sufficient for Göbekli Tepe, and the other numerals, the results for 3 % that long are anyway "off charts"./HGL

* STARTREC adds up to 616, I recall ...

S	83	080	03
T	84	160	07
A	65	220	12
R	82	300	14
T	84	380	18
R	82	460	20
E	69	520	29
C	67	580+	36 = 616