1) Human population after Noah, racial and demographic pseudoproblems for creationism, 2) Have "Humans Interbred with Neanderthals and Denisovans"?, 3) Sorry, Duursma, but all languages have the cases of Proto-Indoeuropean, there is no primitive language ... (which is on Φιλολoγικά/Philologica blog), 4) After Flood and Babel : Was There a PIE Unity?, 5) Chiara Bozzone on Caland System - Short Review, Trubetskoyan Comment (which is again on Φιλολoγικά/Philologica blog)
PIE = Proto-Indo-European = ancestral language from which ALL Indo-European languages are daughter languages, like Romance languages are from Latin.
Once again, polemics against the Proto-Indo-European "orthodoxy" on CMI, starting by a somewhat more complete version of the table in Towering Change by Carl Wieland.
Languages: | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
German | Danish | English | Latin | Spanish |
Hungarian | Russian | Mn Gk | Italian | French |
Hungarian will often be the odd one out. Therefore it is in bold where others are normal, and here above normal, while others are in bold.
| ||||
Numerals | ||||
I | ||||
Ein | En | One | Unus | Uno |
Eggy | Odyin | Ena | Uno | Un |
Does the Russian combine the IE and the Hungarian form (ggy = dy)?
| ||||
II | ||||
Zwei | To | Two | Duo | Dos |
Kettö | Dva | Dhyo | Due | Deux
|
III | ||||
Drei | Tre | Three | Tres | Tres |
Három | Tri | Tris | Tre | Trois
|
IV | ||||
Vier | Fire | Four | Quattuor | Cuatro |
Négy | Chyetirye | Tessera | Quattro | Quatre
|
V | ||||
Fünf | Fem | Five | Quinque | Cinco |
Öt | Pyat | Pente | Cinque | Cinq
|
Family members | ||||
1 | ||||
Mutter | Mor | Mother | Mater | Madre |
Anya | Mat’ | Metera | Madre | Mère
|
2 | ||||
Vater | Fa(de)r | Father | Pater | Padre |
Apa, Atya | Otyetz | Pateras | Padre | Père |
Note that one of the Hungarian words = Russian (which adds an ending to it). If the Russian were akin to Pater word, I have not yet seen an explanation as to how. Also, Atya in Hungarian and Ata in Turkish are the same word as Gothic Atta (in Gothic Fadar means basically daddy, it is used to translate "abba" in a certain Biblical context).
| ||||
3 | ||||
Sohn | Son | Son | Filius | Hijo |
Fiam | Syn | Iyos | Figlio | Fils |
Hungarian and Latin, odd ones out (in Latin I here will include Romance, except when explicitly contrasting them).
| ||||
4 | ||||
Tochter | Datter | Daughter | Filia | Hija |
Lánya | Dot' | Thighatera | Figlia | Fille |
Hungarian and Latin, odd ones out
| ||||
5 | ||||
Bruder | Bro(de)r | Brother | Frater | Hermano |
Testvér | Brat' | Adhelfos | Fratello | Frère |
Hungarian, Greek, Spanish, three odd ones out
| ||||
6 | ||||
Schwester | Syster | Sister | Soror | Hermana |
Nővére | Syostr | Adhelfi | Sorella | Sœur |
Hungarian, Greek, Spanish, three odd ones out
To be honest, both for "filius/filia" gloss, and for the glosses "adelphos/adelphé" and "hermano/hermana" there are Indo-European etymologies, meaning the current explanation among linguists is that IE words originally used were disused and replaced by IE derivatives or compounds from other concepts. | ||||
Pronouns Personal | ||||
i a | ||||
Ich | Jeg | I | Ego | Yo |
Én | Ya | Egho | Io | Je
|
i b | ||||
Mich | Mig | Me | Me | Me |
Én | Menya | Me/Mou | Mi | Me
|
ij a | ||||
Du | Du | Thou | Tu | Tu |
Te | Tî | Si | Tu | Tu |
Russian "î" = Roumanian î, Polish y
| ||||
ij b | ||||
Dich | Deg | Thee | Te | Te |
Ön | Tebya | Sou | Ti | Te
|
iij a | ||||
Wir | Vi | We | Nos | Nosotros |
Mi | Mî | Emís | Noi | Nous |
Russian "î" = Roumanian î, Polish y | ||||
Germanic, Russo-Greek-Hungarian (!), Latin
| ||||
iij b | ||||
Uns | Oss | Us | Nos | Nos |
Nekünk | Nas | Mas | Ci | Nous |
Germanic (=) Russo-Latin, Greek
| ||||
iu a | ||||
Ihr | I | Ye | Vos | Vosotros |
Neki | Vî | Esís | Voi | Vous |
Russian "î" = Roumanian î, Polish y | ||||
Germanic, Russo-Latin, Greek
| ||||
iu b | ||||
Euch | Je(de)r | You | Vos | Os |
Ön | Vas | Sas | Vi | Vous |
Germanic, Russo-Latin, Greek
| ||||
House and City | ||||
A | ||||
Haus | Hus | House | Domus | Casa |
Ház | Dom | Spiti | Casa | Maison |
Germanico-Hungarian, Russo-Latin, Italo-Spanish, Greek, French | ||||
B | ||||
Stadt | By | City | Civitas/Urbs | Ciudad |
Város | Gorod | Poli | Città | Cité/Ville |
German, Danish, Hungarian, Russian, Greek, Anglo-Latin, Latin, French | ||||
In this case we know the most common word is not original PIE for concept, but a derivative for the Latin word for citizen.
| ||||
Animals | ||||
a | ||||
Hund | Hund | Dog | Canis | Perro |
Kutya | Sobaka | Skilos | Cane | Chien |
Germano-Latin, English, Spanish, Hungarian, Russian, Greek
| ||||
b | ||||
Kater/Katze | Kat | Cat | Feles | Gato |
Macska | Koshka | Gata | Gatto | Chat |
Germano-Romance-Greek-Russian, Latin, Hungarian | ||||
Another case where the common word is probably not the original one.
| ||||
c | ||||
Löwe | Løve | Lion | Leo | León |
Oroszlán | Lyev | Leontari | Leone | Lion
|
d | ||||
Affe | Abe | Monkey/Ape | Simius | Mono |
Majom | Obiez’yana | Maimouda | Scimmia | Singe |
Germanic, Latin, English, Spanish, Hungaro-Greek (probably Turkish?), Russian
| ||||
e | ||||
Bär | Bjørn | Bear | Ursus | Oso |
Medve | Myedvyed’ | Arkoudha | Orso | Ours |
Greco-Latin, Russo-Hungarian (probably Slavic), Germanic
| ||||
f | ||||
Pferd | Hest | Horse | Equus | Caballo |
Ló | Loshad’ | Alogo | Cavallo | Cheval |
Romance, German, Danish, English, Latin, Russo-Hungarian (probably Tatar), Greek
Note that Russian is the only Slavic language which has this word. Polish, Bielorussian and Ukrainean all have Kon'. A Slavic, but not obviously PIE word. (Yes, Croatian and Bulgarian also use the same word as Polish). | ||||
g | ||||
Kuh | Ko | Cow | Vacca | Vaca |
Tehén | Korova | Vodi | Vacca | Vache |
Germano-Latino-Greek, Hungarian, Russian
| ||||
h | ||||
Vogel | Fugl | Foul/Bird | Avis | Pájaro |
Madár | Ptitsa | Pouli | Uccello | Oiseau |
Germano-Greek (plus other Greek word, possibly akin to Russian), Latin, Spanish, Hungarian, Russian
| ||||
i | ||||
Fisch | Fisk | Fish | Piscis | Pez |
Hal | Rîba | Psari/Ikhtís | Pesce | Poisson |
Russian "î" = Roumanian î, Polish y | ||||
"IE", Hungarian, Russian, Greek, Greek
| ||||
k | ||||
Schlange | Slange | Snake/Serpent | Serpens | Serpiente |
Kigyó | Zmyeya | Fidhi | Serpente | Serpent |
German (from whence Danish), English (with Swedish "snok" of other meaning), English with Latin, Hungarian, Russian, Greek
| ||||
l | ||||
Spinne | Edderkop | Spider | Aranea | Araña |
Pók | Pauk | Arakhni | Ragno | Araignée |
Germanic, Greco-Latin, Danish, Russo-Hungarian
| ||||
m | ||||
Skorpion | Skorpion | Scorpion | Scorpio | Escorpión |
Skorpió | Skorpion | Skorpiós | Scorpione | Scorpion |
"IE"+Hungarian? Actually Greco-Latin, borrowed into the non-Greek and non-Romance languages. |
Now, no one is opposed to accepting that Scorpion was not an originally IE word. Why should "one" necessarily be from a mother language rather than loaned?
Now, you may reply, pronouns and numerals are among the least loanable words. Not necessarily so, if the language borrowings are very intelligent.
You see, in a far past, when languages were far more fragmented than now, but closer to the Flood, closer to the wisdom of Noah, very probably one realised, soon after Babel, that useful vocabulary in nouns and even verbs could be learnt very easily even between strangers - you point to a scorpion, one says "scorpion" and another says "nge" (swahili for scorpion) "dabaqallooc" (somali for scorpion) and you know what scorpion is in the other language - whereas pronouns and relatives and numerals are things you could too easily make a mistake about and one would try to construct a common vocabulary for those (extending to common verb conjugations, whereof the personal endings are largely common to Finnish as well, while preterite formations are not, and a common set of case endings. Function in phrase being also one of the categories where mistakes are easy.
This, and the fact that Indo-European languages are talked by peoples descending from different grandsons and greatgrandsons of Noah and therefore starting out with different languages after Babel makes at least the Proto-Indo-European Theory of Indo-European "by-and-large-unity" a clearly doubtful theory and mutual borrowings a clearly worthwhile pursuit of study.
Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
St Virgil of Salzburg
27-XI-2015
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