mercredi 18 novembre 2015

Henke has a Point on Sarfati - Who Has a Point on Henke

OldEarth : Creation Science Rebuttals
Sarfati's Inconsistent Views on Photon Transmissions between Stars and in the Sun's Interior
Kevin R. Henke, Ph.D.

Henke himself:
Because of their fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible, young-Universe creationists (YUCs) believe that the Universe is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old. However, since the 1840s, astronomers have known that interstellar distances easily exceed 10,000 light years (Brush, 1983, p. 305-306). If the Universe is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old as YUCs claim and if the speed of light has been constant over time, why do we see objects billions of light years away from Earth? ...

Gosse, referred to:
In the past, many YUCs (as examples: Morris, 1978, p. 61-62; Wysong, 1981, p. 156) have simply argued that God instantaneously created starlight (photons) between the Earth and stars. Therefore, "Adam" did not have to wait for the stars to appear "as signs" (Genesis 1:14-15) in the heavens (Morris, 1978, p. 61-62). YUCs that support this claim not only cite Genesis 1:14-15 as "evidence", but also argue that if "Adam" was miraculously created in a mature and complete state, so could starlight (for example, Wysong, 1981, p. 156). Of course, Morris' and Wysong's "response" is nothing more than the feeble and unscientific "Gosse" or Omphalos argument.

Sarfati referred to quoted as rejecting Gosse:
Some older creationist works [as examples: Morris, 1978; Wysong, 1981] proposed that God may have created the light in transit, and [old-Universe creationist Hugh] Ross harps on this as if it is still mainstream [young-Universe] creationist thinking... [Ross reference omitted]. But AiG [Answers in Genesis] long ago pointed out the problems with this idea. [new paragraph] It would entail that we would be seeing light from heavenly bodies that don't really exist; and even light that seems to indicate precise sequences of events predictable by the laws of physics, but which never actually happened. This, in effect, suggests that God is a deceiver.

My own comment:
Actually, the Distant Starlight Paradox can be very simply dealt with if we can in any way suppose that astronomers have been wrong on stellar distances since 1840's.

And since FIRST step of "cosmic distance ladder" is parallax measures, this poses the question whether the annual motion of 63 Cygni and α Centauri, by which their distances are "measured" to 11 and 4 lightyears (assuming a speed of light I am not here questioning), not the one they have in common as "aberration of starlight", really IS an apparent motion only and the body actually moving is Earth.

If not, if "aberration" movement and its "at the edge variation" known as "parallax" is for each star its own movement, then neither gives us any indication of how far away the stars are.

Let us suppose Voyager 1 is not a fraud, it is even so about 6 light hours away from being 1 light day away from Earth. So, Voyager 1 has not even yet disproven my now favourite hypothesis that stars are 1 light day away.

Stars could be seen not just first evening by Adam and Eve in their lives, starting on day six, which gives a max distance of 2 light days, but even the evening before by the birds, which started chirping on day five, so they should be maximum 1 light day away.

Geocentric Wikia

The not so huge distances also give a solution to a problem specific to Geocentrism:

G. W. : How Fast the Stars are Spinning Around Earth Each Day

And therefore to stellar sizes (supposing they were a problem) as well, this on New blog on the kid:

1) On Spirographs and Standard Candles - Cosmic Markers for Mark Shea, 2) How Big is Kepler 452? A Geocentric Minority Report, 3) - But Parallax Guarentees the Distance of Kepler 452, Right? Right? Don't Tell Me It Doesn't!

Henke gets technical with Sarfati:

Henke on Young Sun Problem
Like other stars, nuclear fusion in the Sun's core produces photons, neutrinos and other radiation. In the past, some YECs have erroneously proclaimed that solar energy comes from a "shrinking Sun" (also see: Van Till et al., 1988, Chapter 3). However, Sarfati (2004, p. 170, 341-342) and AiG properly reject this nonsense and embrace the reality of nuclear fusion in stars.

Physicists have determined that photons produced in the Sun's core take much more than 10,000 years to migrate through reradiation to the Sun's surface. The shortest time estimate in the literature for this migration is approximately 17,000 years, which was derived by Mitalas and Sills (1992). However, Stix (2003) argues that the estimate in Mitalas and Sills (1992) is erroneous and that the actual value is closer to 30,000,000 years. Other estimates in the literature also greatly exceed 17,000 years (for example: Harrison, 2000, p. 94). So YUCs face yet another example of a natural phenomenon that refuses to comply with their "young" Sun. If the Sun is less than 10,000 years old, why do we detect photons and other radiation that could only form from the extremely high pressures and temperatures in its core?

Sarfati quoted by Henke
Also, some argue for long ages on the basis that the calculated time for a photon to travel from the [solar] core to the surface (actually by absorption and reradiation) exceeds the biblical time scale. But this is explained if the main purpose of fusion is STABILITY - producing enough energy to balance that lost from the surface, that is, the sun was created in a STEADY STATE CONDITION, with the outward pressure generated by fusion matching the inward gravitational pressure, maintaining a constant temperature profile. This means that it could immediately fulfill its function as the 'greater light,' [Genesis 1:16] and keep shining at a constant rate. It is no different from believing that God created Adam with oxygen in his bloodstream in his extremities, even though it now takes some time for oxygen to diffuse through the alveoli in the lungs, then be transported by the blood. [Sarfati's emphasis]

Henke's comment:
Obviously, Sarfati (2004, p. 171) fails to see that he's invoking the same type of groundless Gosse miracles to "explain" how photons travel WITHIN stars as Morris, Wysong and other YUCs have used to "explain" how photons travel BETWEEN stars. Clearly, Sarfati's approach to the migration of photons within the Sun is not only anti-scientific, but it's also inconsistent and hypocritical.

My Comment on That One:
Well, no.

What Sarfati and I admit is not an absolute ban on any Gosse argument, for instance Adam and Eve were created adults, and were never toddlers.

What we admit is a ban on SUCH misapplied Gosse arguments which would make God a deceiver. Since sun as a sign is about its shining visibly, not about its photons having travalled from centre to surface, there is no deception in assuming there was sunlight from day four on, it would have been cruelty on His part for it not to, if He was going to create Adam and Eve two days later.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Dedication of the Basilicas
of Sts Peter and Paul*

* Romae Dedicatio Basilicarum sanctorum Petri et Pauli Apostolorum. Earum primam, restitutam in ampliorem formam, Summus Pontifex Urbanus Octavus consecravit hac ipsa recurrente die; alteram vero, miserando incendio penitus consumptam, ac magnificentius reaedificatam, Pius, Nonus die decima Decembris solemni ritu consecravit, ejusque annuam commemorationem hodierna die agendam indixit.

A fitting day, since the dedication of St Peter's Basilica was made by same Pope whose Inquisitors also condemned Galileo in 1633.

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