What Can the Altaic Flood Legend Teach about the Real Flood

Talk Origins has the very great kindness to present us a list of several Flood Legends around the world. Among these the Altaic one.

Altaic (central Asia):

Tengys (Sea) was once lord over the earth. Nama, a good man, lived during his rule with three sons, Sozun-uul, Sar-uul, and Balyks. Ülgen commanded Nama to build an ark (kerep), but Nama's sight was failing, so he left the building to his sons. The ark was built on a mountain, and from it were hung eight 80-fathom cables with which to gauge water depth. Nama entered the ark with his family and the various animals and birds which had been driven there by the rising waters. Seven days later, the cables gave way from the earth, showing that the flood had risen 80 fathoms. Seven days later, Nama told his eldest son to open the window and look around, and the son saw only the summits of mountains. His father ordered him to look again later, and he saw only water and sky. At last the ark stopped in a group of eight mountains. On successive days, Nama released a raven, a crow, and a rook, none of which returned. On the fourth day, he sent out a dove, which returned with a birch twig and told why the other birds hadn't returned; they had found carcasses of a deer, dog, and horse respectively, and had stayed to feed on them. In anger, Nama cursed them to behave thus to the end of the world. When Nama became very old, his wife exhorted him to kill all the men and animals he had saved so that they, transferred to the other world, would be under his power. Nama didn't know what to do. Sozun-uul, who didn't dare to oppose his mother openly, told his father a story about seeing a blue-black cow devouring a human so only the legs were visible. Nama understood the fable and cleft his wife in two with his sword. Finally, Nama went to heaven, taking with him Sozun-uul and changing him into a constellation of five stars. [Holmberg, pp. 364-365]

Tengys (Sea) was once lord over the earth. Nama, a good man, lived during his rule with three sons, Sozun-uul, Sar-uul, and Balyks.

A good man with three sons closely matches the Biblical story.

Someone (probably a bad man) being ruler of all the world is possible.

Ülgen commanded Nama to build an ark (kerep), but Nama's sight was failing, so he left the building to his sons.

I don't know the rest of the stories about Ülgen, so I can't say how closely he matches the Biblical and real God.

However, when St Thomas Aquinas listed the degrees of false religion, he considered that of the "Tartars" as better than idolatry, though less good than islam (and I suppose that is how he would have viewed Amerindians too). And in some cases an idolatrous name for a false god has been reused by Christians of same language (Jumala, Finnish, Dievas, Lithuanian). I am not sure whether this is the case with Ülgün or not.

Nama's sight failing is probably false, extrapolation of post-Flood very shortened longevity.

The ark was built on a mountain, and from it were hung eight 80-fathom cables with which to gauge water depth. Nama entered the ark with his family and the various animals and birds which had been driven there by the rising waters. Seven days later, the cables gave way from the earth, showing that the flood had risen 80 fathoms.

This part is interesting.

In the Bible we have the direction "fifteen cubits above the highest mountains".

Changing 15 cubits to 80 fathoms is usually called exaggeration. But it is interesting that the legend states that the Ark was built on a mountain - and that ropes were in any shape way or form there to determine how much water had risen.

This is probably true about the real flood and the "fifteen cubits above the highest mountains" part.

Seven days later, Nama told his eldest son to open the window and look around, and the son saw only the summits of mountains. His father ordered him to look again later, and he saw only water and sky. At last the ark stopped in a group of eight mountains. On successive days, Nama released a raven, a crow, and a rook, none of which returned. On the fourth day, he sent out a dove, which returned with a birch twig and told why the other birds hadn't returned; they had found carcasses of a deer, dog, and horse respectively, and had stayed to feed on them.

Timescale of Flood radically shortened. Dove talks - and this is, though false per se, prophetic of when a dove and a voice from heaven were there in the Baptism of Christ.

In anger, Nama cursed them to behave thus to the end of the world.

Noah pronouncing a curse is in the Bible too. Probably Mongols descend from Ham and were not willing to tell real story, even if not descending from Chanaan (or one could say Mongols like Japanese do descend from Hittites, or from one Hittite, at least in their élite, which I believe to be correct on other grounds*). One could even argue "Nama" could be a portmanteau word for "Noah" and "Ham".

When Nama became very old, his wife exhorted him to kill all the men and animals he had saved so that they, transferred to the other world, would be under his power. Nama didn't know what to do. Sozun-uul, who didn't dare to oppose his mother openly, told his father a story about seeing a blue-black cow devouring a human so only the legs were visible. Nama understood the fable and cleft his wife in two with his sword. Finally, Nama went to heaven, taking with him Sozun-uul and changing him into a constellation of five stars.

This is of course rather far from anything in the Bible - except some wives giving their husbands bad council. And husbands refusing to hear them. It probably owes some details to episodes in the wilder and bloodier times of this people.

There could even be some kind of reference to Nimrod trying to reach Heaven through the top of a tower. "Nama" would even have an echo from first syllable of Nimrod or first two of Enmerker.

Apart from that, Tengys could also be a combined reference to Nimrod or Tubal Cain as post- and pre-Flood tyrants along with the great waters of the Flood itself.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Blessed Name of Mary
12.IX.2016

* Heth was first born of Chanaan. Probably the direct issue of him in Turkey were speakers of Hattic, not of Hittite, but speakers of Hittite eventually identified with them (hence their name) and so could have been considering themselves as Chanaaneans too. The reference to Japanese, possibly also Mongol one, descending from one, is about Aeneas as son of Venus and about Amaterasu as great-grand-mother of Emperor Jimmu. I suppose the goddesses as mothers originally referred to priestesses or rather one priestess, Puduhepa serving both a sungoddess (like Amaterasu) in one rite and a love goddess (like Venus) in a slightly different one and believing herself they were the same. She became a Hittite Empress. As Jimmu was not yet arrived in Japan, only his descendants there became Tennos, the road of that kind of dynasty would have been able to go through Mongol or Altaic regions before reaching Japan. And if so, and if historic Hittites retained (unknown to archaeology) or regained some knowledge of descent from Chanaan, one can see why "curse of Ham" would not have been a very favourite topic, while not being totally ignored either.

Nama cursing scavengers to behave badly is of course also an echo of Adam, through sin, not through pronouncing a curse, doing so very much earlier than Noah.