dimanche 1 juillet 2018

Trying to Break Down "Reverse Danube" or "Reverse Euphrates" Concept

Creation vs. Evolution : How Much was Shinar Devastated by the Flood? · You Find a Fossil Whale Here, a Fossil Pterosaur There ... · Answering Carter and Cosner on Eden · Trying to Break Down "Reverse Danube" or "Reverse Euphrates" Concept · Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : With Damien Mackey on Four Rivers and Related, I to X · Continuing Previous, XI to XX - are Nile Rivers Excluded? · Continuing Previous : XXI to XXXIII - getting to Troy (as we Tend to Do)

If we say that pre-Flood Frat went South to North from where Persian Gulf is, along present Euphrates or roughly, continued into Danube going from Dobrugea to where the Alps now are and continuing from there to Rhine and Seine and Garonne and on onto the Sea, or that pre-Flood Hiddekel went South to North along Tigris, continued North along Don or Volga and from there East to Syr Darya and Amu Darya and from then out into Yang Tse Kiang, and similarily divided the other first two rivers into North to South White and Blue Niles continuing into respectively Niger Kongo South of White Nile and Indus or Ganges East of Blue Nile, and a river in South Arabia between, because there is a Havilah there, then we are in a way squaring the circle of both affirming and denying identity of Four Rivers with present Hydrology : affirming partially and sufficiently to warrant Moses' language, denying however the complete identity.

We seem also to run into an explanation problem with CMI, who seem better at scientific theories worded in the words they are used to, their own or their adversaries', than at words of an unexpected ally.

I got a very bleak response from Robert Carter when posting the previous reply to him.

So, I'll try to break it down.

  • one problem seems to be how ANY hydrology could survive the Flood at ALL;
  • another seems to be how any drainage basin could have reversed its direction.

A river is not just a fairly narrow strip of water. It is a fairly broad so called drainage basin, which has smaller contributaries flowing to that strip of water. I agree that a 1 km broad strip of river bed could easily have been covered in sediment or wiped off with the surrounding walls as they eroded under Flood.

ONLY, this is not quite the case for drainage basins 100's or 1000's of kilometers in width.

If a very strong current during the Flood flowed simply along, it would enforce its already existing concavity. Either direction, upstreams or downstreams.

If it flowed instead across, this is less evident. If it flowed across and eroded, arguably it would leave a deepening and rounding of concavity. Only if it flowed across and deposed sediment, it would obfuscate the original concave shape.

My scenario actually argues this happened in places, since if I am right pre-Flood Frat would have been same basin along Euphrates, Black Sea/Kaukasus, Danube and Rhine, Seine and Garonne. But now Kaukasus cuts Euphrates off from Danube, and Alps cut Danube off from Rhine and the rest. And Danube cut off from Euphrates flows into Black Sea and Mediterranean, Euphrates cut off from Black Sea and Danube flows into Persian Gulf - where it originally, on my view, came from (unless from Jordan, as Damien Mackey would argue, where I have reservations at least for immediately pre-Flood times).

This partial cutting off of pre-Flood major drainage basins would explain also reversals of direction, at least combined with the rise of folded mountains in the post-Flood era, as water drained off into the sea.

Finally, a strip of new sediment in between older and harder stone - which a river bed as such could often be just after Flood - could be the bit which sudden drainages of dams broke through, since softer : this way Euphrates would in more than one place (North of immediate post-Flood mouth) actually coincide with pre-Flood Frat, except for direction, even as to river bed. I'll elaborate one point on parenthesis. South Iraq did not exist as land in immediate post-Flood times. Babel was arguably not near today's Babylon or Baghdad, as these were arguably under water. But Mesopotamia is also Assyria, which straddles NW Iraq, E Turkey and N Syria. And a plain in N Syria is just south of a hill in Turkey which is now known as Göbekli Tepe. It is nearly due NW from Babylon, and if Nimrod's successors moved, a move a bit more than 5° S and a bit more than 5° E would be a symbolic identity marker.

Hans Georg Lundahl
VI Lord's Day after Pentecost

Update 5.VII.2018:

I was debating this with Damien Mackey, who seems to have some good reasons from Sirach to debunk PARTS of this solution. There Gihon does seem distinct from Nile. It could be Gihon is going the way of the Danube instead or it could be it is the Blue Nile, if Abyssinians made wine where they now make coffee. I'll not be dogmatic about each identification, since Church Fathers do not agree./HGL

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