Creation vs. Evolution: décembre 2017

samedi 30 décembre 2017

jeudi 21 décembre 2017

Living Stones

Contrary to a prejudice from Protestants, when we refer to "visible Church" we do not mean buildings of minerals, or for that matter, in Norway, often of lignine, we refer to the people whom St Paul calls "living stones" being visible people.

Now, the analogy between stones of a temple and people is probably an ancient one.

Nevalı Çori: The 10,400 year old Megalithic Temple near Göbekli Tepe
MegalithomaniaUK | Ajoutée le 30 juil. 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0dRicL5eY

10,400 years old = from 8400 BC. Note, I don't believe this date is accurate, but I believe this date, given by archaeologists, is a carbon date, where part of the present content of 28.42 percent modern carbon being lower than 100 is due to the time spent with decay of original content, but part of this lower content being also an originally lower content.

This means, while the 8400 BC is not in itself accurate, it indirectly reflects sth which is.

If Göbekli Tepe's thousand years 9600 - 8600 BC were the forty years of Babel, then Nevalı Çori would be one of the earliest post-Babel constructions. In it you find "anthropomorphic pillars". That is, some of the pillars are made to look as if they were people. We don't know if, like Babel, it was run by Nimrodians - or I don't, I haven't seen all of the video yet - or by the pre-Abrahamic faithful (those with Masoretic timeline, if accepting my identification of Göbekli Tepe would involve Abraham too, I say pre-Abrahamic as per LXX timeline).

Could St Paul know about this, naturally speaking, in Corinthians, or, perhaps even more directly, St Peter in I Peter 2:5?

No, if they ever had a vision of Nevalı Çori, it was a supernatural one. The site was buried long before they were around and was dug up very recently. But, while in a way Nevalı Çori's anthropomorphic pillars might look like men turned to stone, St Peter was speaking to "stones" who had been turned to men, to children of Abraham. Grafted branches, but live branches, in another parable.

I was asking who these living stones were for 5th C. of a Protestant. I mentioned St Patrick. For 7th C. I give you St Winifrede:

Saint Winifred and Her Well
de Mary's Dowry Productions PRO le 18 décembre 2017
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/winifred

On a live rock, that stone was built, and the gate of Hell shall not prevail against her./HGL

vendredi 15 décembre 2017

Neanderthals - Related to Michael Oard's and Anne Habermehl's Work (post-Flood Boundary and Babel Builders)

Neanderthal : Neanderthal Pre-or Post-Flood? · If Neanderthals were Carnivores, were they Post-Flood? · "what biblical, young earth creationists have always maintained" · Is there an Urban Legend that Grendel and His Mother were Dinosaurs Among Creationists? · · http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2017/12/neanderthals-related-to-michael-oards.html · Hugh Ross and Genetics, Featuring a Gruesome Habit (Don't Read This When You Eat!)

On today's article, Michael Oard enumerates three schools about Flood / post-Flood boundary. I am citing a minimum to show what they have in common:

"The first believes that the Flood/post-Flood boundary is generally in the late Paleozoic"
"The second school of thought believes the Flood/post-Flood boundary is near the Cretaceous/Tertiary (K/T) boundary."
"The third school of thought believes the Flood/post-Flood boundary is near the end of the Cenozoic."

All of above seem to say a "defined Geologic period" is either from the Flood or from post-Flood, anywhere on earth. That Cretaceous and Jurassic could be a biotope type which was recreated after the Flood too doesn't occur to him. Or biotope types which were. To me a Hadrosaurus date by Armitage suggests that.

CMI : Defining the Flood/post-Flood boundary in sedimentary rocks
by Michael J. Oard
https://creation.com/defining-the-flood-post-flood-boundary-in-sedimentary-rocks

Of course, some geologic layers, like "recent humus soil" on top of all rocks and clay, are automatically post-Flood. No one would dispute that.

I would add some back onto that list : Younger Dryas is Post-Flood, since just before Babel, if my theory of Babel = Göbekli Tepe is correct.

Upper Palaeolithic in archaeology - or the parts carbon dated to after carbon date of last fully Neanderthal skeleton in Europe - is post-Flood. I take this to be 40 000 YA, but some have argued that Neanderthals "could have survived to 28 000 BP", which I think is based on charcoals in a cave in Gibraltar, the charcoals being from 28 000 YA, the cave including previous Neanderthal occupation.

Gibraltar 1 skull - undated.
Gibraltar 2 skull - dated to "between 30 000 and 50 000 BP"

"The original find was done in a time where the palaeontological dating was still in its infancy, and no stratigraphic information was supplied with the skull, making dating at best guesswork. Another specimen from a different locale on Gibraltar (Gibraltar 2) has however been dated to between 30 thousand to 50 thousand years old."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_1

Giving reference 4:

Smith, T. M.; Tafforeau, P.; Reid, D. J.; Pouech, J.; Lazzari, V.; Zermeno, J. P.; Guatelli-Steinberg, D.; Olejniczak, A. J.; Hoffman, A.; Radovcic, J.; Makaremi, M.; Toussaint, M.; Stringer, C.; Hublin, J.-J. (15 November 2010). "Dental evidence for ontogenetic differences between modern humans and Neanderthals". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 107 (49): 20923–20928. doi:10.1073/pnas.1010906107. PMC 3000267 Freely accessible. PMID 21078988.

Not finding the reference for Gibraltar 1 / Gibraltar 2.

The reason is excellent. I had used a wikipedian article in another shape than the present one.

Here is from my article:

Creation vs. Evolution : Neanderthal Pre-or Post-Flood?
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2017/02/neanderthal-pre-or-post-flood.html

Common name: Gibraltar Woman; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_1
Species: Homo(sapien) neanderthalensis
Age: 30,000 to 40,000 years
Place discovered: Forbes' Quarry, Gibraltar
Date discovered: 1848
Discovered by: Edmund Flint

Now, same article on wiki has age as "unknown". Revision as of 01:49, 8 November 2016 - it was there. Revision as of 18:54, 28 April 2017 - it goes, replaced by "unknown", courtesy of wikipedian user Nicolas Perrault III.

Now, anyway, my point is, if her skeleton was in terms of carbon dates so much older than the charcoal at Gorham Cave, then she could be pre-Flood, the charcoal early post-Flood (of same cave).

Apart from charcoal at Gorham cave, I don't know anything which would put Neanderthals as recent, in carbon terms, as 28 000 BP.

I suppose all cave paintings to be post-Flood, not from a creationist karstological view point that caves "perhaps only formed during and after Flood", but more in terms of water of the Flood would have washed away or severely smudged the colours.

In Neanderthal caves we don't find paintings, we have found a hashtag. In Cro Magnon caves, we do find paintings ... meaning, on my view, Cro Magnon is the race which came out of the Ark.

This detail about Neanderthals will also be relavant to a point about Habermehl's theory of the "ziggurat of Babel".

AiG : Where in the World Is the Tower of Babel?
by Anne Habermehl on March 23, 2011
https://answersingenesis.org/tower-of-babel/where-in-the-world-is-the-tower-of-babel/

I am nearly totally agreed with her on the geographic sites:

Agreed: and I am relying on her effort:
36°50′24″N 40°4′7″E: Calneh (Tell Fekheriye)
37°3′29″N 40°53′44″E: Erech (Tell Aqab)
36°40′03.42″N 41°03′31.12″E: Akkad (Tell Brak)
Disgreed
37°13′23″N 38°55′21″E: Babel - HGL (Göbekli Tepe)
36.5117°N 40.7422°E - 36°51′01″N 40°04′14″E: Babel - Habermehl (Khabur triangle)

I am disagreeing with her on other topics, and this shows in her rejection of Göbekli Tepe as Babel:

"It is widely believed that the Tower of Babel was a ziggurat, also called a stepped pyramid; a quick search on the internet will bring up any number of sites that state this (for example, Livingstone 2008). There is good reason to believe this, because the many ziggurats that are known around the world20 clearly point back to a time when there was an original ziggurat, the knowledge of which traveled with people as they spread out to populate the earth. For creationists, who believe the Bible story in Genesis 11 literally, this original ziggurat has to be the Tower of Babel."

Not necessarily. To Babel in Shinar one came from the East. And there seems to be a ziggurat carbon dated in parts to 20 000 BC (pre-Babel on my view) very far indeed in the East - if Graham Hancock is right about Gunang Padang. Here is my reference between Josephus / Comestor and Gunang Padang:

Now, let's reason a bit about this. Ethann, Helioschora ... could it be Gunung Padang?

1) It is clearly further East than Göbekli Tepe;
2) If Younger Dryas involved some gigantic Floods (though inferior to Flood of Noah), this would explain the shyness of getting onto a plain (and would explain a preference for a plain where it is fairly high, like GT, now 760 meters above sea level, over a lower plain, like 34 m (100 feet) above present sea level;
3) Gunung Padang flourished (or started to get built) 20 000 BP, 18 000 BC, carbon dates, if Hancock is right about drill holes. This would be before Younger Dryas - and Younger Dryas is very evocative of "But they were so ill instructed that they did not obey God; for which reason they fell into calamities, and were made sensible, by experience, of what sin they had been guilty:"

My article:

Creation vs. Evolution : Is Graham Hancock Right on Göbekli Tepe? Part 4
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.fr/2017/07/is-graham-hancock-right-on-gobekli-tepe_18.html

Referring to a Hancock interview here:

Ancient Extinction Revealed: Atlantis, Göbekli Tepe & Mysteries of the Gods with Graham Hancock
TheLipTV2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62EkJlZE3jY

I therefore submit, earliest ziggurat was not Babel, but before it, in the east.

"We also do not know how many able-bodied men were available to do the building work; estimates of the total population at the time of the dispersion have varied greatly, from under a thousand (Morris 1966) to 65,000 (Tower of Babel 2010), to name two. Whatever the number was, this author takes the view that the long-lived people at Babel were Neanderthals, and thus known to be physically very strong (Cuozzo 1998; Habermehl 2010; Trinkaus 1978); they would have been able to do much harder physical work than humans today."

I disagree with Habermehl on this one.

Neanderthals are not long lived post-Flood men, they are another pre-Flood race. On the Ark, no full Neanderthal was on board, but one daughter in law of Noah (at least) would have been half Neanderthal, or less. This is why no strict Neanderthal race survives today, but some races have more Neanderthal traits than others.

That is why I set Flood / Post-Flood limit in carbon dates as last carbon date of a Neanderthal skeleton. As said above, in connection with Michael Oard.

"According to Genesis 11:3, the Tower was built of “burnt” brick—that is, kiln-baked brick. This is a very durable material, and because of this, remnants of the Tower may well have survived the ages."

You know, I heard some rocket engineers at NASA are using basically same material = ceramics = burnt brick as shields for heat or against radiation.

This obviously has to do with what I think the tower was (or was meant to be, not claiming it would have been functional) : a three step rocket at takeoff looks like a tower and only the top section actually makes it to deep space.

Also, technically, the text does not say that both tower or city or either of them was burnt brick, just that they had invented the technique.

"Remote Sensing: What Are the Chances That We Will Ever Find the Tower and City of Babel?"

Göbekli Tepe : city found, three step rocket not yet found. Perhaps not even left in place.

You see, the narration says they ceased to build on the city.

This is arguably true for Göbekli Tepe, it was even covered in sand, deliberately.

It does not say they ceased to build on the Tower. If it was a rocket prototype, one of the groups would have been able to take it away. I suppose to China, where I suppose gunpowder was invented to replace Uranium as Nimrod's planned (and very ill planned, fortunately not tried) rocket fuel. Meaning China in one way continued to build the "tower" - each Chinese forework rocket being a miniature of it. Others in other ways, like ziggurats (recall the Gunang Padang one?) and stone circles (Stonehenge and a few more).

Since it is a few months back at least that I argued about Nimrod was probably going to use Uranium as rocket fuel, and that is part of why God "stopped the Babel building," (not totally, but the immediate concerted effort, delaying millennia to Cape Canaveral and Bajkonur, so a safer fuel was discovered, H2+O2), Nimrod would have known Uranium from the probably pre-Flood times described in Mahabharata : part of the Ghita resembles an atomic exposion and was cited by Oppenheimer, and other parts reflect radioactive contamination properties). For those who consider Mahabharata matters as post-Flood, Nimrod would have known Uranium at first hand, and have been even more stupid to want to try it. I consider he knew it from hearsay (a bit less reflected than that in the later poem Mahabharata) and that the ice age as part goal from God's side, was to prevent Nimrod's getting Uranium from Canada.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Octave of the Immaculate
Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary
15.XII.2017

vendredi 8 décembre 2017

Is there an Urban Legend that Grendel and His Mother were Dinosaurs Among Creationists?

Neanderthal : Neanderthal Pre-or Post-Flood? · If Neanderthals were Carnivores, were they Post-Flood? · "what biblical, young earth creationists have always maintained" · Is there an Urban Legend that Grendel and His Mother were Dinosaurs Among Creationists? · · http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2017/12/neanderthals-related-to-michael-oards.html · Hugh Ross and Genetics, Featuring a Gruesome Habit (Don't Read This When You Eat!)

I recall some years ago a Kent Hovind theory in which Kent Hovind seemed to take not just the final monster, the wyrm, a dragon with wings, or the monsters on the swimming tour of Kattegatt, the nicor, but also Grendel and his mother for reptiles.

I now saw an article* on CMI, where Russell Grigg is enumerating all monsters in Beowulf, presumably including Grendel, in dinosaur kinds:

The epic Anglo-Saxon poem Beowulf tells how Beowulf (c. AD 495–583) of Scandinavia killed a monster named Grendel, and its supposed mother, as well as several sea-reptiles,11 but eventually lost his life at the age of 88 in the process of killing a flying reptile. The Saxon description of this creature fits that of a giant Pteranodon—it was ‘fifty feet in length (or possibly wingspan)’. The monster called Grendel, which Beowulf killed many years previously, is described as follows. He was apparently a youngster (having been known for only 12 years), man-like in stance (i.e. bipedal), and he had two small forelimbs that the Saxons call eorms (arms), one of which Beowulf tore off. He was a muthbona—one who slew with his mouth or jaws—and his skin was impervious to swordblows.

The sea-reptiles, nicor, on the swim over Kattegatt, OK. The final dragon being a pteranodon (or perhaps the poet mixing tradtitions between pteranodontes and dimetrodontes, the sail of the latter could be taken from a distance as a wing), OK.

But when Russell Grigg says Grendel's forelimbs were just called eorms, it looks as if he thought they were not arms.

That Neanderthals belong to the human kind is obviously true. But whether they do so as true and full men or more like monstruous Nephelim is another matter.

Now, the description of Grendel is the description of a "post-Flood nephelim". The poet explicitly calls him "Caines cynne" - kinsman of Cain.

Here are two interpretations of Neanderthals:



UNiesert - Eigenes Werk, Neues Model eines Neandertalers (Mann und Frau) im Neanderthal-Museum, Mettmann, Deutschland, CC BY-SA 3.0 File:Neandertala homo, modelo en Neand-muzeo.JPG Erstellt: 8. April 2009		Copyright: themandus.org ***

The one to the right may or may not be correct about the Neanderthal fossils, but it is certainly fairly much what Grendel is described as.

It is from the site Them+Us**. The text under the picture is With their more robust skeletons and heavier musculature, it’s estimated Neanderthals were six times stronger than humans. Other texts are : An illustration (above) from ‘Them and Us’ reveals that the the skull of a Neanderthal fits perfectly into the profile of a chimpanzee, suggesting the appearance of Neanderthals (at least in profile) more closely resembled non-human primates than a modern humans. And : Vendramini demonstrates that the optical orbits (eye sockets) of Neanderthals were considerably larger than humans. He theorizes Neanderthals evolved these extra large eyes because, like most mammalian predators, they were nocturnal hunters.

Nocturnal hunters? Fits Grendel and his mother perfectly.

Now, look at this:

If you’re disturbed by these images, there’s a good reason for it. Like other prey species, humans have an innate capacity to recognize our natural predator. What Neanderthals ‘felt’ like is hardwired into our genes. Neanderthal predation was so traumatic that even 28,000 years after the last Neanderthal disappeared, they can still push our buttons.

Sounds very much like descriptions of the pre-Flood world and like the indication there may have been a kind of "return of the Nephilim" after the Flood in the verse Genesis 6:4.

KJV : There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

DRBO differs : Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown.

Probably "and also after that" and "for after" translate the same Hebrew phrase. It is the former translation which indicates a possible return of nephelim after the Flood.

Now, Neanderthals probably had language, they do have the human version of the FOXP2 gene. They had tools. They were not simply animals. But they can have been monstruous perversions of mankind.

And, as said, by Rob Skiba, if giants returned after the Flood, one explanation is, while Noah and his wife were pure human, not perverted by nephelim, not all of his daughters in law were genetically untainted by them.

Danny Vendramini might possibly agree that tales of trolls could be related to experience of Neanderthals (if his reconstruction is correct), and if so, I would be disagreeing with him (with the reservation mentioned) only about the time scale. 28 000 years ago is not a valid date - it is derived from false interpretations of carbon 14 levels, as if derived from original levels in samples being close to 100 percent modern carbon.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Feast of the Immaculate Conception
of the Blessed Virgin Mary
8.XII.2017

* Dinosaurs and dragons: stamping on the legends
by Russell Grigg
https://creation.com/dinosaurs-and-dragons-stamping-on-the-legends

** THEM+US: DANNY VENDRAMINI : The real Neanderthals
What neanderthals really looked like
http://themandus.org/gallery/

*** I will have to ask the webmaster on whether the fact of including the image here makes an exception to my own terms of reuse or not. If you try, at least do not use it on the front cover or back cover, that is explicitly excluded.

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