Creationists do deliberately misrepresent evolution many different ways in all their arguments. Even when they know better, they still say that evolution necessarily requires the godless origin of life from inorganic matter. But it doesn’t mean that, and never did. For one thing, all the building blocks of life were already organic long before the first organism, before anything could be considered alive. We’ve even detected vast amounts of organic matter in deep space.
But creationists claim space evolved too, and that the big bang is part of the same evolutionary process as that which leads to new species on earth. So they often say that evolution requires “something coming from nothing”, which is ironic since creationists believe that themselves while strict scientists do not.*
and
Creationists often say that secular humanism is recognized as a religion by law, and since they wrongly that think atheism and what they call “evolution-ism” are the same thing, then by extension they think even rationalism should be considered a religion; that even anti-religion is religious. But of course they’re wrong again on all counts.**
Evolution is even less religious! It is the branch of biology which explains biodiversity. As such it doesn’t permit supernatural explanations, has no doctrines, nor dogma, nor fables with morals; it has no rituals, traditions or holidays, nor either leaders or defenders of the faith because it doesn’t allow faith. It holds nothing sacred, there’s no place of worship, no enchantments, no clergy, no fashion of garb, and it neither promotes nor discourages belief in gods or souls, and says nothing about how we should live or what happens after we die. Evolution is therefore NOT a religion, and creationists KNOW its not –but they say it is anyway.**
What a pity the point is missed. For one thing, if a creationist were to say "evolution is the religion of atheism", he would be using a short-cut for what could be more exactly, but not more succinctly stated as:
The materialistic secular atheism has a philosophy, the dreary part of which is an explanation according to which everything in the last analysis boils down to atoms and energy, but the uplifting constant part of a philosophy (hence "religion") is that this by a series of very different evolutions, including but very much not limited to evolution in the biological sense, evolves into the rich existence we actually enjoy. Including experience of religions, which may be enjoyed even by those who believe materialistic atheism.***
Now, is it possible for Mr Geoscience Major from University of Texas to actually conceive how a word like "religion" comes to stand for "the bright part of a philosophy, even if it happens to be expressed in non-ritual ways"?° I hope it is, if you compare it to a phrase like: Frederick II was a thoroughgoing secularist, the one thing he believed in was expanding the power of the Holy Roman Empire inwards against the Church and outwards against rival states.
Do I need to remind any reader not already partial against Creationists, that other than we, for instance Dawkins or Onfray, also tend to use "atheist" as a shortcut for "secular humanist" rather than as obviously in every instance including Theravada Buddhism and Taoism?
But most importantly, as he pointed out in another video, evolution just means change over time, and evolution as in "Origin of the Species" (biologic evolution) is not at all the only instance where such is claimed as the explanation.
Big Bang to galaxies, rotating gas clouds to solar systems, hot liquid states of earth to inhabitable state of earth, all these are, on the view of present day secular humanists, or materialistic atheists, valid explanations.
Of course, even a creationist would admit that God (the omnipotent God of Christianity, the one our opponent in this debate calls a magician) could have used biologic evolution even if he used none of the other means to bring reality as we know it about, of those enumerated here.
But the Christians who believe he used evolution usually also believe in Big Bang. And usually they do state as one reason for their stance, that a more traditional understanding of Christianity takes its recourse to a "Magician kind of God". The same one our dear big friend cannot accept, least of all among scientists.
Speciation is the only taxonomic division which is genetically significant, and it is the only one that can be objectively determined. So it is the only possible point of division between the largely unnecessary distinctions of macro and microevolution.
"The theory is perfectly valid at that level; minor changes that do not produce new kinds of organisms, and that above all do not add to the genetic information, ...breeders are able to produce change only within boundaries. Even those dogs are all members of a single biological species, which are chemically interfertile. Uh, we don't get dogs getting bigger and bigger indefinitely –as big as elephants, or whales, much less changing into elephants or whales. ...and the claim that if selective breeding hasn't produced the kind of macro changes, the kinds of new forms of life, new biolo- complex organs uh, that are needed, that's only because there hasn't been enough time."
Creationists insist that macroevolution has never been observed, and the excuse they use to deny that it has requires the addition of a bogus condition that simply does not apply. Creationists argue that evolution can only occur within “definite limits”, and then only to subtle variance within their “kind”. They say new diversity is limited to rare and unviable hybrids between those “kinds”, and they usually say that the emergence of new species is impossible.
No “Darwinist” would ever say any of these things. Sorry Stein, but you’ve lost your mind.°°
"My terminology is the right terminology. If an observation needs any other terminology than mine to be expressed, it is not a valid observation."
Sorry, but that is all there is to this objection. Unless he prefers to correct "mine" to "ours", but that does not change very much.
Creationists do make a distinction between microevolution and macroevolution. We do it in order to observe that macroevolution has never been observed.
The thing about microevolution as in "small step evolution" is, it is from variety to variety.
The thing about macroevolution as in "big step evolution" is, it is, at the very least, from kind to kind.
The crux of the matter is: do ring species and band species count as the making of a kind, i e species that may not be directly crossbreedable but are inderectly as in crossbreedable with a third between them forming a band or a third and a fourth species on either side, forming a ring of at least indirectly interbreedable species? If that does count as the making of a kind, well then macroevolution has been observed by Darwin. If that is insufficient for the making of a kind, we are back at - macroevolution has never been observed. Like in Galapagos Finches - are they different kinds or not?
The Darwinist claims, basically, that cat and dog had a common ancestor, so they are really part of a ring or band of interbreedable species, only the intermediates are lost, so they are not in a band or ring of indirectly interbreedable species.
The Creationist replies: such a making of two kinds from one or of a new kind, has never in fact been observed.
The Darwinist replies:
If it is possible to walk twenty feet, it’s possible to walk twenty miles. So creationists insist there must be some “definite boundary” blocking the evolution of new “kinds”. But they won’t say where or what that boundary is.
All these reveal that life is a fluid dynamic producing new and subtle variation with every descendant. But evolution only occurs when new alleles are spread throughout a given community. This is where selection comes into play, because the parent gene pool actually does more to inhibit new aberrations than to promote them. A smaller gene pool is much easier to influence. So what you usually get are more significant changes emerging in smaller colonies that have been genetically isolated from the main population. Eventually, they may get to the point where the two groups are distinct, where a trait now held in common by every member of one group is not shared by any member of the other group. This is known as a subspecies, or “breed”. If the two groups resume interbreeding, then all that may meld together again as if it had never been. But if they’re isolated long enough, they will continue to drift further apart both physically and genetically until it becomes difficult to interbreed at all anymore. Eventually they’ll only be able to sire infertile hybrids, if they can still produce anything living. At the point when two sexually-reproductive populations can no longer interbreed with viable offspring, then they have become two different species.°°
The Creationist generally replies: that is the Darwinist view of identity of micro- and macroevolution. We do not share it. I go one further, I claim to have, for one part of animal kingdom, identified a mechanism that is a real barrier. Just like "if it is possible to go twenty feet straight forward, it is impossible to walk twenty miles straight forward without bending along the curvature of earth", I claim that, though genes within or between chromosomes may be pretty fluid stuff, number of chromosomes are, at least upwards, pretty fixed things. In mammals.°°° And this thing which makes us able to ask these questions, essentially mind. As between man and other animals.#
There is a third item which is lost in translation: the Hovind theory, he never found any resistance to Christian mission, except by Evolutionists. Guess he did not get around Muslims very much, but the point is, that was an obvious spoof on "we never found any evidence contradicting evolution".
HGL,
again, same place and date as previous
*See:
The 6th falsehood of Creationism:
“Evolution-ism” (Part II)
“Evolution must explain the origin of life, the universe, and everything.”
http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/6thFFoC.html
**See:
The 5th foundational falsehood of creationism;
“Evolution-ism” (part I)
“Evolution = the religion of atheism”
http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/5thFFoC.html
***A Dutch pastor of Middelburg, a Calvinist, actually denies the existence of God.
°Unless of course you count school compulsion as a rite often imposed by Evolutionists (and Protestants, and Jews) on Catholics.
°°See:
The 11th foundational falsehood of creationism:
“Macroevolution has never been observed.”
http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/11thFFoC.html
°°°See:
Letter to Nature on Karyotype Evolution in Mammals
(and all links from that one on)
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2011/11/letter-to-nature-on-karyotype-evolution.html
#See:
Apes and Fools
(on a very snappy kind of level)
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2012/01/apes-and-fools.html
and:
Funny How Some Systematically Answer the Wrong Questions
(with included links)
http://creavsevolu.blogspot.com/2012/01/funny-how-some-systematically-answer.html
and:
On obedience having limits. Answering two faithful from the flocks of the FSSPX.
(the part after the video link)
http://hglsfbwritings.blogspot.com/2011/11/on-obedience-having-limits-answering.html
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