Sumeria, Damien Mackey, Intellectual Honour

Are CMI Hearing Me? · Does Sennaar mean Sumer? · Ken Griffith and Darrell K. White considered Judi, but not Göbekli Tepe · Ah, Griffith and White Provided the Source Too · Sumeria, Damien Mackey, Intellectual Honour · Damien Mackey Has His View on Shinar, Nimrod and Babel

First, before we get to anything other, it has been pointed out to me (who place Babel in Göbekli Tepe) and it has also been answered by me:

a, to me:

that Sumer and Sennaar is the same word;

b, by me:

that Murrica and América, Murrican and Americano is also the same word, and Sennaar is no more limited to what archaeologists consider (and as I presumed Sumerians considered) as Sumer than the Americas are limited to the Contiguous (and Alaskan) territory of the US.

To those that have been following my Creationist blog for some time, this should already be old news.

Sometimes however newcomers will only glance the last page of the blog, the uppermost posts that are the ones visible at first glance, and were written last. Currently, that's these seven posts (up to when I publish this one), namely:

1 For those who pretend there were several tens of thousands of years between Adam and Abraham 2 Was the Drainage System of the Rhine There in the Preflood World? 3 Accelerated Decay After All? 4 For Those Who Still Attribute Göbekli Tepe to Noah 5 A "Dominican" Was Wrong 6 Is Armenia East of Babylonia? 7 CMI Seems to Have a Will to Hammer Away Geocentrism

That's lazy. There are (again prior to this one), how many posts on this blog?

68 + 65 + 113 + 60 + 85 + 81 + 78 + 113 + 67 + 36 + 45 + 68 + 47 + 15 + 15 + 8 = 964

7 / 964 = 0.726 %.

You could have gone to the right hand menu and clicked years and months, or you could have gone to the search bar:

Some seem to have been going to sth else near the search bar ("more" -> "report an abuse"). But few seem to have thought they could actually look up old articles. Even if those in the top seven actually linked to some of them.

Is ICR Making a Case for Geocentrism? · Setterfield · Accelerated Decay After All?

New blog on the kid: Heliocentrism aggravates the wound of ignorance? · Creation vs. Evolution: Sigh. There Are People Who Consider Me a Conspiracy Theorist Already · CMI Seems to Have a Will to Hammer Away Geocentrism

So, some of these lazy bunch missed to find out I had already answered that Sumer (if identic to what mainstream archaeology calls Sumeria) is smaller than Shinear / Sennaar, even if the name is the same.

In this context, I'll now introduce three links by two other people:

The Collector: The Sumerian Problem(s): Did the Sumerians Exist?
Dec 6, 2023 • By Nita Gleimius, BA Ancient Near Eastern Cultures & Biblical Archaeology
https://www.thecollector.com/sumerian-problem/

Academia : Called Sumerian History, but isn’t.
Damien Mackey | 26.VIII.2024 ?
https://www.academia.edu/123272234/Called_Sumerian_History_but_isn_t

Academia : Shock effect of my Sumerian deconstruction
Damien Mackey | 28.VIII.2024 ?
https://www.academia.edu/123336732/Shock_effect_of_my_Sumerian_deconstruction

Long story short: the archaeology, namely a homely, nearly hippie, version of Babylonian culture, with statuary exhibiting eyes like in comic books, the language, and the term Sumer may not be as closely associated as usually thought. I'm now going to make an own assessment of the doubts, without closely following Mackey.

In Sumerian, Sumer is Kengir.

In their inscriptions, the Sumerians called their land "Kengir", the "Country of the noble lords" (Sumerian: 𒆠𒂗𒄀, romanized: ki-en-gi(-r), lit. ''country" + "lords" + "noble''), and their language "Emegir" (Sumerian: 𒅴𒂠, romanized: eme-g̃ir or 𒅴𒄀 eme-gi15).

I looked up when we see Sumerian as a language documented from. Pure pictograms featuring merchandise and numerals and value, that won't tell us if the writer of them spoke Sumerian or Croatian. Only when some kind of phonograms, usually syllable signs, get showing, only then can we say with some confidence that such and such a name and such a such a sentence is Sumerian. I'm not even positive that the earliest god names in tables from Sumer have Sumerian etymologies. The Sumerian that was a spoken and not yet the kind of language some call "dead" and some (including me) "classical" (before it went what I'd like to call "dead" and others call "extinct"), is documented in dates ranging from 2900 BC to 1700 BC. At the utmost from 3200 to 1600 BC.

The pictographic writing system used during the Proto-literate period (3200 BC – 3000 BC), corresponding to the Uruk III and Uruk IV periods in archeology, was still so rudimentary that there remains some scholarly disagreement about whether the language written with it is Sumerian at all, although it has been argued that there are some, albeit still very rare, cases of phonetic indicators and spelling that show this to be the case.[14] The texts from this period are mostly administrative; there are also a number of sign lists, which were apparently used for the training of scribes.[10][15]

As some of the dates involved are carbon dates (clay tablets were covered in wool, which is sometimes preserved and can be carbon dated), or associated with carbon dates (clay tablet found in a house with a wooden beam that can be carbon dated, or a house with an architectonic and artistic style close to that of another house that has a wooden beam), and presumably none of the dates are obtained by historic attestation (Sumerians weren't saying "this is 4000 BC, and we have just founded Ur" and they were also not saying in AD 33 "King Abgar received an image of Christ 4033 years after the founding of Ur"), the dates can be crammed. I'll do so:

1845 BC 84.5892 pmC, so dated 3245 BC 1823 BC 85.0509 pmC, so dated 3173 BC ... 1734 BC 86.8913 pmC, so dated 2884 BC

... 1543 BC 97.813 pmC, so dated 1723 BC 1521 BC 98.184 pmC, so dated 1671 BC 1498 BC 98.555 pmC, so dated 1618 BC

The utmost extent, 3200 BC to 1600 BC, is between when Isaac was getting old and when the Exodus happened. The other assessment would be 2900 BC to 1700 BC, when Joseph was already in Egypt, but before he was promoted, and ending when Moses was early on in the exile. Either way, it started after Genesis 14 (carbon dated 3500 BC, which is not the real date, that being c. 1935 BC, which means the Amorrhites had already quit Asason Tamar. I start to tentatively ask myself if Sumerian could have been a pre-Semitic language in Canaan, like maybe Hattic speakers came from Heth son of Canaan, also not a Semitic language. And if it was imported into Mesopotamia by Amorrheans, the same who also constructed Babylon.

Let's return to Damien Mackey, who set me on this track. What does he have to say in the last essay:

Here is where my point about intellectual honour comes in. Buying myself praise as a wise man by conforming is an option that disgusts me. I would be far less disgusted to see someone message me sth like

you are at least an uneducated and indoctrinated individual, or the worst and more plausible possibility, you are a liar who manipulate gullible people.

The only real problem I have with people who react like that to what I write is, if they should be able to take power over my life or activity as a writer, and continue to offer me the alternative of getting "educated" by their bad education (what they mean by "indoctrination") or getting isolated for refusing to comply. Simply getting such a message, well, I'd take that as a badge of honour. Of intellectual honour.

Hans Georg Lundahl
Paris
Pope St. Pius X
3.IX.2024

(20.VIII) Et alibi aliorum plurimorum sanctorum Martyrum et Confessorum, atque sanctarum Virginum. R. Deo gratias.
(3.IX) Sancti Pii Papae Decimi, cujus natalis dies tertiodecimo Kalendas Septembris recensetur.

PS, it seems I have received some unexpected support:

Sumerian: The Descendant of a Proto-Historical Creole? An Alternative Approach to the «Sumerian Problem»
Jens Hoyrup [originally published in 1992, in AIΩN
https://www.academia.edu/30302776/Sumerian_The_Descendant_of_a_Proto_Historical_Creole_An_Alternative_Approach_to_the_Sumerian_Problem_

PPS, not sure yet of how much this one supports me:

The Sumerian Question - Reviewing the Issues
Gordon Whittaker | van Soldt, 2005
https://www.academia.edu/1869564/The_Sumerian_Question_Reviewing_the_Issues

PPPS, Hoyrup's paper better readable:

SUMERIAN: THE DESCENDANT OF A PROTO-HISTORICAL CREOLE?
Jens Hoyrup, 1992, An Alternative Approach to the Sumerian Problem
https://www.academia.edu/3131610/SUMERIAN_THE_DESCENDANT_OF_A_PROTO_HISTORICAL_CREOLE